Coal Power Plants

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Thu. Apr. 05, 2018 2:23 pm

David... wrote:
Fri. Mar. 30, 2018 11:14 am
Electricity is second to natural gas as the most popular fuel to heat in the US.

David
50% (or whatever fraction electricity for home heating actually is) is indeed a fraction. Therefore there is no incongruity with regard to what I stated.


 
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Post by BigBarney » Thu. Apr. 05, 2018 3:19 pm

They are all fractions no one fuel is 100%.

Depending on the region , most north , midwest , and west have a

50+ % of natgas , whereas the south uses electric primarily.

" Relatively few uses (including space heating, water heating, cooking, and clothes drying) offer a choice of equipment across fuels. Almost everything else including air conditioners, lights, refrigerators, televisions, computers, electronics and other devices is powered only by electricity. "

The heating fuels cannot in a home , power all your other needs.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=7690

BigBarney

 
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Apr. 08, 2018 3:07 pm

A snippet from Electric Power Generation projects now and then later... I'm just the messenger. ;)
Low U.S. natural gas prices, relative stability in crude oil prices and increased consumer demand have spurred further plant construction activity.


NorthEast

Power generation is an important driver in the Northeast as natural gas plants are being built to replace coal and nuclear plants. In addition, pipeline capacity is being built up as quick as permits are approved to get gas from the shale plays to users. There will be several projects to prepare and support the Shell ethylene cracker and petrochemcial complex in Beaver County, Pennsylvania.
We anticipate further growth of the chemical industry in the northeast because it is so central to natural gas.
Additional Drivers
Nearly half of construction spending in the northeast is on consumer goods construction spending. This is largely tied to packaging. 
Packaging demand is largely driven by consumer spending, which is on the rise. 
As online shopping increases, so does the demand for the packaging materials to ship the products in.
U.S. quarterly spending in the U.S. hit an all-time high of $12,035.23 billion in the fourth quarter of 2017, up 99% from the third quarter of 2017, according to Trading Economics.


South

Multiple projects are driving construction spending in the South including ethylene crackers and ethylene derivative plants, pipelines for natural gas and crude, power and natural gas liquids (NGL) projects and more.
Even as several new ethylene and polyolefin units begin commercial operations in 2018, construction of more than another dozen unit projects are planned to begin this year.
Additional projects are on the horizon for 2019 and 2020, with a majority of this new capacity expected to come online between 2022 and 2023.


MidWest

Electric power construction spending is also up in the Midwest, with $4.7 billion expected in wind power construction, $3.9 billion in natural gas power construction, $3.8 billion in coal power construction, and $1.0 billion in nuclear power construction, according to IIR.

West

Power spending is also up in the West, with $2.9 billion in construction spending expected for solar power, $3.9 billion for natural gas power, and $2.8 billion for wind power.
Construction spending is also up for the manufacturing of electric vehicles by companies such as Tesla and rising competitors.

 
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Post by BigBarney » Mon. Apr. 09, 2018 12:32 pm

McGiever...

That is all true except in the West where they are cancelling gas plants

left and right. More put on hold in the last few weeks.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/california-muni- ... ns/520871/

They could end up with stranded assets like the eastern power companies.

"In each case, the decision to halt a gas plant investment came from increasing competition from renewable energy and storage, whose prices have fallen precipitously over the past few years. In Arizona, regulators also rejected utility generation plans when they put the gas moratorium in place, saying they wanted to avoid "unnecessary capital improvements in the near future and stranded asset costs in the long-term."

There will be some replacement activity but overall no new plants only upgrades.

In NY they want to upgrade the power line to be able to move the renewable

energy to where its needed..

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/nypa-proposes-re ... bl/520809/

The plant Shell is building for poly films is needed to use the natural gas

feedstocks which are now readily available.


BigBarney

 
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Post by McGiever » Mon. Apr. 09, 2018 10:01 pm

Shell Plant being built now is where I'd be working now were it not for retiring a year ago.
dieter.gif
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Post by coalnewbie » Tue. Apr. 10, 2018 2:56 am

All very nice but the nation needs a mix of energy sources ...

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/3805 ... s.facebook

 
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Post by David... » Tue. Apr. 10, 2018 7:28 am

We already have a mix of energy sources. The ones that cost the most should do the least or not be used.

David


 
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Post by coalnewbie » Tue. Apr. 10, 2018 7:31 am

Then stop subsidizing solar, I am tire of bleeding my taxes there.

 
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Post by tsb » Tue. Apr. 10, 2018 8:12 am

After nine pages of blah,blah, the laws of physics remain unchanged.

 
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Post by McGiever » Tue. Apr. 10, 2018 9:44 am

If only all the CEO's and shareholders of electric generation and utilities would get a grip...that's where coal plants futures are all sorted out. Coal is messy.

 
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Post by David... » Tue. Apr. 10, 2018 10:27 am

Then stop subsidizing fossil fuels, I'm tired of bleeding my taxes there.

David

 
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Post by BigBarney » Tue. Apr. 10, 2018 12:27 pm

Answering some of the posts...


The laws of FINANCE are the rules that are KING .

Rules of physics determine if a process is viable and it takes

many man hours to develop and refine that it will be cost

effective . Heat engines are as far as they can go because of

their low efficiency of ~20% , even with 20% gains they are real

poor use of energy , most is lost as heat and friction.


Any power plant with any fuel cost will be obsolete sometime

in the future , only the speed of technology will regulate when

it happens.


We are all subsidizing power plants that should be shut down and

only used in a backup role if at all .


See APPLE has reached 100% renewable for most of their campuses.

https://mashable.com/2018/04/09/apple-clean-energ ... aSH4XLGaqQ

I know that this is a little misleading because they purchase credits from

power producer to off set some of the conventional energy they need in

day to day operation.

BigBarney

 
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Post by Pacowy » Tue. Apr. 10, 2018 11:37 pm

David... wrote:
Tue. Apr. 10, 2018 10:27 am
Then stop subsidizing fossil fuels, I'm tired of bleeding my taxes there.
To what subsidies are you referring?

Mike

 
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Post by David... » Wed. Apr. 11, 2018 7:11 am

Any and all.

David

 
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Post by franpipeman » Wed. Apr. 11, 2018 7:58 am

This is just the latest of these efforts they are endless
https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2018/03/ ... e-cleanup/


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