Coal Power Plants

franpipeman · Post by **franpipeman** » Sun. Mar. 04, 2018 1:35 pm

If we don't dream to make something that isn't existing we are in trouble. Windy when you were using the OWB i bet you dreamed you had something else. And you got it I dreamt about building a solar system that can provide the normal electric power of a household...........and I 30 years later i built it , excepts its at my sons house due to I have too much shade(free cooling in summer ), but Its the location has a better life span, as I have a lot of gray hair.

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Sun. Mar. 04, 2018 2:35 pm

Yes we all benefit from innovation and the pursuit of ways to improve things, and sometimes the world changes very rapidly as a result. Here, it's fine to have dreams about renewables, but history has shown that it is not as easy as it may look to get rid of fossil fuels, and the numbers show the actual use of renewables so far is pretty limited. To me, the breathless anticipation of the elimination of fossil fuel use is, at best, premature.

Mike

samhill · Post by **samhill** » Sun. Mar. 04, 2018 3:14 pm

Why is it that when anything is proposed such as this there is a large segment here that suddenly believe that it's to entirely take away what we have now? The more we have of renewables the less strain & drain of natural resources, if someone can go totally without the grid then more power to them (no pun intended). If it weren't for me being in my 70s I would be putting some other source of power but at my age I could never recover the cost.

windyhill4.2 · Post by **windyhill4.2** » Sun. Mar. 04, 2018 3:29 pm

I did not say that it was wrong to dream.. or that no dream ever comes to pass.

BUT..

Most every thread that BB has posted is an introduction to the new way & the old way will now cease. Many of the alternate energy ideas are still only in the dream stage,they have not been time tested yet.

Even wind generators & solar have yet to prove their long term reliability, both have been around & in use for over 30 yrs.

BigBarney · Post by **BigBarney** » Mon. Mar. 05, 2018 10:44 am

The sun will always shine so this should be our goal to be able to

utilize this energy to the betterment of all mankind. We grow our

food with it and now technology will make it possible to power a

share of our household energy with it and other renewables.

When mentioning a car as a backup power supply in the case of

an outage , cars are used so little < 5% per day that the recharge

time is short , average < 30 miles per day.

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2015/04/new-study-reveals ... sts-drive/

Your car is full of energy every day at the start and 30 miles only take a short

time to refill.My Chevy Bolt has 60 KWHr of battery in it and can run a 1500w

inverter from the 12v battery through the DC-DC power convertor till the

battery is depleted. This is an ideal backup and a second car would either

double the time or load capacity , especially since you already have 95% of

energy available. Tesla is working on connecting the powerwall to the car in

a way so energy from the car can power it in an outage but not available yet.

BigBarney

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Mon. Mar. 05, 2018 11:09 am

BigBarney wrote: ↑
Mon. Mar. 05, 2018 10:44 am
The sun will always shine so this should be our goal to be able to

utilize this energy to the betterment of all mankind. We grow our

food with it

I'm glad you mentioned that. Somehow the global warming crowd that knows so well what is best for us all overlooks the proven fact that CO2 concentration is a significant determinant of agricultural productivity. I guess "all mankind" has been deemed to be in need of a diet. I think our goal should be to have public policies that realistically take into account the plusses and the minuses, and allow market forces, not some bureaucrat or the People's Central Planning Committee, to determine the winners and losers (including the market penetration of renewables).

Mike

BigBarney · Post by **BigBarney** » Mon. Mar. 05, 2018 4:07 pm

I don't believe in global warming , the charts and info they use to me are a

waste of time because you are dealing in long term cycles of thousands of

years where the data is scarce. The short term can be seen but when you

pull back the long term vision is fuzzy at best , kinda like reading the sign

on the highway when your 5 miles away.

Its hard to let market forces take place when you are Subsitizing so many

of the players in each field , market forces work only when you have a

free market .

BigBarney

BigBarney

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Mon. Mar. 05, 2018 4:16 pm

So who do you think has been subsidized during the period of growth in renewables? And if CO2 is not necessarily a big deal - as you describe and as I agree - why is anybody worked up about renewables?

Mike

BigBarney · Post by **BigBarney** » Tue. Mar. 06, 2018 10:10 am

We subsidize to some extent in many industries and services , supposedly to

stimulate private investment in basic research which has no return until it can

monetized in some product. Space-X is a perfect example of using previous

research to monetize a product , and they will take it much further with the

profit motive to push it.

The reason renewables are such an important part of our energy future is that

they are a DISRUPTIVE TECHNOLOGY which will change the future . The renewable

future has a way of changing completely what we do in our daily lives , and

making life easier and more pleasant. The cost of renewables will continue to

fall and cause big DISRUPTION in the power industry where their costs will be

noncompetitive in the market , this is already happening where customers can

abandon the grid completely and be off line forever. They have to fight this with

the same FREE energy that their customers are getting , by they themselves doing

the same with renewables and storage.

BigBarney

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Tue. Mar. 06, 2018 10:49 am

BB, I didn't see an answer to my question about subsidies provided during the time of renewables growth. I think the profit motive is great, and research is important, but what are the big benefits you see from renewables if CO2 is not really an issue? I'm having trouble following you on this, because previously I believe you provided links to articles highlighting the "failures" of research involving carbon sequestration at coal-fired plants. If carbon is not an issue, who cares? If the research could go back to making coal plants more efficient, how do you know that the next generation of ultra-super-duper-critical coal boilers won't kick renewables to the curb? Or that renewables have any meaningful role to play now or in the foreseeable future if they can't dislodge fossil fuels in competition on a level field?

Mike

windyhill4.2 · Post by **windyhill4.2** » Tue. Mar. 06, 2018 11:02 am

FREE energy is the Sunlite that shines in thru my existing house windows & warms my house on Sunny days.
There is no FREE energy with solar panels or wind generators... both of those systems take major $$ to buy the equipment to collect the FREE energy,they both take constant maintenance & upkeep in order to keep receiving that FREE energy.

BigBarney · Post by **BigBarney** » Tue. Mar. 06, 2018 11:19 am

No fossil fuel energy can ever compete with solar and wind with 0

fuel costs. Maintenance is greatly reduced too and technology will

continue to make the efficiency even greater.

Power plants have large maintenance and repair cost and all take

a lot of time to complete. Coal plants also have large quantities

of waste ash to dispose of whereas gas has a one way trip to the

power plant and no disposal. Anyone following power plant news

will realize that all fuel plants will be slowly phased out and replaced

with all type of alternative energy. It will not happen quickly.

Renewables received a lot of basic technology subsidies but now

worldwide many companies see huge markets and profits to be

made. China is a leader in this because they had a great need and

a widely distributed population who used coal as a heating and

cooking fuel with the attendant pollution .

BigBarney

coalnewbie · Post by **coalnewbie** » Tue. Mar. 06, 2018 11:29 am

Yawn, not again BB, you are incorrect and getting boring.

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Tue. Mar. 06, 2018 11:44 am

x2.

Zero fuel cost is great, but that's not all that goes into generating electricity. Hydro has zero fuel cost, too, and it has been around for a long time, but its role in the market is still comparatively small.

If the best you've got for an explanation is China it's hard to give it much credence. The last time I checked, China had a totalitarian government, not free markets. And poor air quality may well result from China's coal stoves, but here under the Clean Air Act (and amendments) we simultaneously experienced a major increase in coal use for power generation, and a dramatic improvement in air quality. Your comments appear to display either a lack of awareness of history, or a hope that your audience lacks such an awareness.

Mike

BigBarney · Post by **BigBarney** » Tue. Mar. 06, 2018 12:10 pm

Hydro is great but how many can be developed? Sunshine is everywhere on the

planet and has no need for a huge drop to be efficient.

Here in NY we have the highest flow rate falls in the US and are able to

harness Niagara Falls with the Canadians sharing the output.

Here is a good site to get power info from reliable sources without opinion.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/10-trends-shapin ... 18/515235/

BigBarney