Efficiency of a Stoker Stove Vs. a Hand Fired Stove

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:30 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:27 pm
Lol Larry reported roughly 12 pounds per day for a week straight.
Right, but I think most of that is just to maintain a fire.


 
scalabro
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Post by scalabro » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:31 pm

Lightning wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:30 pm
hotblast1357 wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:27 pm
Lol Larry reported roughly 12 pounds per day for a week straight.
Right, but I think most of that is just to maintain a fire.
Exactly Lee!

Another point is the cost of maintenance WRT a stoker.... that's is if we want to compare the whole nine yards... :)
Last edited by scalabro on Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:34 pm

All your baseburner is doing is maintaining a fire.

His boiler was in fact heating his house during this time just like your stove is at idle.

Same difference.

Can you get your baseburner to burn 12 pounds or less for a solid week straight without any fire issues or tending issues? Oh and also do not touch it for the entire week lol

 
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:35 pm

I can't speak for the small stoker stoves, but my EFM burns about 15 lbs per day to keep 800 lbs of steel and 40 gallons of water at about 170 degrees. Add another 5-7 lbs depending how much DHW we use.

I once figured out how much electric it used. I think it was about $2 per month when just producing DHW. If you want to split hairs, some the electric turns into heat via the motor, but I have no idea how much.

Anyway - like I said earlier, most people choose one or the other for reasons other than efficiency...and some lose sight of the difference between efficiency and economy.

Go with what makes you happy.

 
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Post by scalabro » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:39 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:34 pm
All your baseburner is doing is maintaining a fire.

His boiler was in fact heating his house during this time just like your stove is at idle.

Same difference.

Can you get your baseburner to burn 12 pounds or less for a solid week straight without any fire issues or tending issues? Oh and also do not touch it for the entire week lol

An idling stoker does nothing but waste coal hahahahahahahahaha

Like I said I don't burn coal when I don't need heat lol!

You do :)

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:45 pm

So then how do you run your stove when you don’t need heat?


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 
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Post by scalabro » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:45 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:35 pm
I can't speak for the small stoker stoves, but my EFM burns about 15 lbs per day to keep 800 lbs of steel and 40 gallons of water at about 170 degrees. Add another 5-7 lbs depending how much DHW we use.

I once figured out how much electric it used. I think it was about $2 per month when just producing DHW. If you want to split hairs, some the electric turns into heat via the motor, but I have no idea how much.

Anyway - like I said earlier, most people choose one or the other for reasons other than efficiency...and some lose sight of the difference between efficiency and economy.

Go with what makes you happy.
With all do Rob... thank you for proving my point. You burn "15 lbs a day" just to keep "800 pounds of steel and 40 gallons of water 170*"


 
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Post by scalabro » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:46 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:45 pm
So then how do you run your stove when you don’t need heat?


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Ummm, because it's shut down...why would I run the stove when I don't need heat?

Hahahahaha hahahahahahahahaha

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:48 pm

You do know we can shut off a stoker if we don’t need heat also right???

Lmao like I said before, Larry was in fact heating his house with his 12 pound per day consumption.

And rob is using only 15 pounds per day to heat his house also when only a light amount of radiant heat is needed!

 
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:50 pm

Well, anyone that wanted to shut their stoker off on a warm day can do so - there is a guy on here that does just that.

The catch is what other fuel source you use to produce DHW and take the morning chill off, and at what point that becomes more expensive than just letting the stoker idle or the stove simmer.

 
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Post by scalabro » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:52 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:48 pm
You do know we can shut off a stoker if we don’t need heat also right???

Lmao like I said before, Larry was in fact heating his house with his 12 pound per day consumption.

And rob is using only 15 pounds per day to heat his house also when only a light amount of radiant heat is needed!
There is no way anyone heats anything other than a doghouse on 12-15 lbs a day ... especially in the middle of winter...

 
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Post by franco b » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:52 pm

Pacowy wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 11:39 am
does that mean you no longer are asserting general efficiency parity between stoker-firing and hand-firing?
I don't believe I ever asserted that. I do believe that any solid fuel appliance fed little and often has an advantage over batch loading. That being said, a well designed hand fed having a hopper or magazine, and burning at its sweet spot which cold weather demands will, I think, often exceed the efficiency of many stokers which appear to run with a great deal of excess air, though excess air becomes irrelevant if enough heat exchange is present in the design, but that in turn can create problems of flue gas below condensation temperatures.

A hand fired is adjusted manually to match the fire to the load. And that fire is constant, unlike the stoker that runs, what is in effect full out and then idles until the next call for heat. A constant fire is always more efficient than an intermittent one.

My objection to the EFM claim of 20 percent superiority is over what they tested against. I suspect it was against one of the old central heating units full of air leaks and batch fed. Not one of the best of parlor stoves, which also have zero pickup loss. The wonder is that something so relatively humble still hols its own in some ways.

For central heating I do think stokers are the most efficient. The control of air and feed coupled with close thermostatic control of room temperature is hard to beat. It is the modern way to go as opposed to the anachronism of the parlor stove, but yet there is still something missing, like that ancient yearning for a fire in the hearth.

 
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Post by lsayre » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:55 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:34 pm
All your baseburner is doing is maintaining a fire.

His boiler was in fact heating his house during this time just like your stove is at idle.

Same difference.

Can you get your baseburner to burn 12 pounds or less for a solid week straight without any fire issues or tending issues? Oh and also do not touch it for the entire week lol
My T-Stats were off, and no one was home. The boiler was only firing to maintain internal temperature. Without the fan coming on occasionally it would have burned out.

 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:55 pm

My uncle idles a huge keystroker all summer long for DHW. This unit heats a big two story home, a shop and a small apartment. He's breaking 30 pounds a day thru non heating days. I think it could be tweaked to use less, maybe. If it were me, I'd shut it down and coat it with oil thru the summer and use natural gas for hot water.

 
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Post by scalabro » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:56 pm

lsayre wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:55 pm
hotblast1357 wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:34 pm
All your baseburner is doing is maintaining a fire.

His boiler was in fact heating his house during this time just like your stove is at idle.

Same difference.

Can you get your baseburner to burn 12 pounds or less for a solid week straight without any fire issues or tending issues? Oh and also do not touch it for the entire week lol
My T-Stats were off, and no one was home. The boiler was only firing to maintain internal temperature. Without the fan coming on occasionally it would have burned out.

And there you go...


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