Reverse Take on Coal Smog (Interesting)

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NoSmoke
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Post by NoSmoke » Sat. Aug. 26, 2017 9:59 am

As many know I am now retired and thus farm full-time. Part of that is doing a lot of soil testing to ensure my fields are producing high yields. Over the last few years I have noted a trend, the amount of sulfur in my soil is going down, often to the point now where it is the most lacking nutrient. So I asked my agronomist about it, and he said it is because for years us farmers were getting sulfur from all the coal fired power plants in the mid west, but because they were shuttered, or had such smog restrictions in place, farmers are reaching the point of having to buy sulfur to put it back into the soil.

Here is my question, could ash from area coal burners help?

My fields need a lot of potash, and my grandfather back in the early 1800's was part of the potash fever movement, having a Potash Factory that shipped potash to England. Right now with all the paper mills closing, (down to 6 from a high of 134 in 1945) and 2 more closing this year probably, there is literally tons of wood I have no market for. For instance hemlock. My forest consists of 28% of it, yet I could not sell it if I wanted too. Since some of my fields need 210 pounds of potash per acre, and wood produces 8% potash, burning 50-100 cords of it per year would net me enough to keep my fields fertilized. But where to get the sulfur from? Area coal burners?

 
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Post by Pacowy » Sat. Aug. 26, 2017 11:15 am

I think the amount of sulfur you'd get out of anthracite ash is limited because there generally isn't a lot of sulfur in anthracite to start with, and some/much of it goes into the flue gas stream during combustion. The sulfur you'd get would be primarily in the form of SO3, and generally would be less than 1% by weight of the ash. In comparison, you'd get a whole lot of sand, Al2O3 and unburned coal, plus Fe2O3, CaO and possibly other compounds in larger amounts than the SO3. If you and your agronomist are ok with it, fire away. To an amateur it seems like you might be handling and applying a bunch of material you don't really want/need to get a small amount of sulfur.

Hope this helps.

Mike

 
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Post by KLook » Sat. Aug. 26, 2017 7:51 pm

I find it hard to believe there was that much sulfur in the air in Maine at any time.....I was in Detroit in the 70's and remember the smog and the yellow haze hanging around the city. But you are talking about significant sulfur to change the soil chemistry....I think your agronomist is full of it. Much like acid rain was debunked also, but that was not in tune with the intelligentsia at the time and was shuffled aside.

Kevin


 
NoSmoke
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Post by NoSmoke » Sun. Aug. 27, 2017 7:19 am

I don't think so. Considering the jet stream, the topography here, and the distance from the mid west power plants, I am sure we had our share of sulfur. Now I am not advocating shutting down more plants, or imposing more stringent regulations, I am just agreeing with my agronomist that the scrubbers installed since the 70's have started to make an impact, and that it is showing up in our soils.

Just to make sure everyone is on the same page though, we are talking micro-amounts. Ideal sulfur is 18 parts per million and I am at 7 parts per million, so it is a tiny amount.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Aug. 27, 2017 8:13 am

I would have to ask my dad about this, but I can never remember sulfur coming up in discussion through many years of soil samples on the farm. Perhaps it is just not an issue in my area. Regardless, I think most farmers have bigger soil issues than sulfur levels. Low pH, low nutrient levels, compaction, and a high water table are the most common offenders in our area. The farms that continue to ignore these issues continue to go out of business.

Back to sulfur - There is an abandoned well on my property. 367' deep, lots of water, and untreatable amounts of sulfur. Local water treatment guy said he cut the sample by 50% 7 times before it stopped reading off the scale. They even tried pumping the well for a week to see if it would clear up - never did, and made the entire neighborhood stink.

 
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Post by Pacowy » Sun. Aug. 27, 2017 11:04 am

For background on sulfur issues in agriculture I found this to be pretty informative - http://nmsp.cals.cornell.edu/publications/factsheets/factsheet34.pdf . One thing it points out is the way reduced atmospheric deposition of sulfur (as a result of controls on sulfur emissions) in some circumstances has changed the need for sulfur supplements in recent decades.

And for Rob's well, this seemed like it might be relevant - http://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/HEALTHYENVIRONMENTS/DRINKINGWATER/SOURCEWATER/Documents/gw/SulfurInGroundwater.pdf .

Mike


 
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Post by samhill » Sun. Aug. 27, 2017 12:06 pm

Bit coal normally has more sulfur than anthracite from what I've been told & most power plants from western Pa. & West most likely burned bit. The production of both coke & steel also produced both sulfur & acid rain (which some say didn't exist) but it does seem a bit far fetched to have changed the soil that much since most likely the same type crops have always been grown. I'll have to ask some local farmers in these parts if they noticed anything.

 
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Post by Pacowy » Sun. Aug. 27, 2017 12:46 pm

I don't think it's that far-fetched. I believe the reduction in atmospheric emissions of sulfur oxides as a result of the Clean Air Act (and amendments) is in the tens of millions of tons per year. Seems fairly predictable that downwind deposition would be affected, esp since sulfur concentration is low to start with.

Mike

 
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Post by NoSmoke » Sun. Aug. 27, 2017 4:39 pm

Sulfur is a huge deal in agriculture especially west of the Mississippi River where they have alkaloid soils. There they add sulfur to help decrease the PH levels. Here on the east side where it is acidic we use lime to increase the ph levels. Sulfur messes with it big time, but is a needed element for plant growth.

Granted while a farmer can manipulate soil PH with sulfur alone, it is a poor way to do it, just as adding wood ash to get PH levels may not be the best way if a farm is low on magnesium. In that case quarried mag lime is best. As with everything in soil;one thing messes with the other so it gets very complex.

The great thing about sulfur is, it tends to stay in the soil a long time, so its not an element a farmer has to add every year like nitrogen.

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Sun. Aug. 27, 2017 5:12 pm

I'm no expert but I do know a couple of match heads around the pepper plants makes good peppers around here. Hee haw!

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