So How Much Coal Do We Have Left?

 
ad356
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Post by ad356 » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 9:00 am

i was wondering how much coal exists in this country that already hasnt been mined? at what point does this country run of well known reserves? is it still plentiful. I live in WNY and my coal is going to be coming out of PA.


 
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Post by coaledsweat » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 9:13 am

3-400 years worth is a good guess. The US has about 1/3 of the world's coal, so don't spend any time worrying about running out.

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 9:20 am

Wait a minute there cs, have you figured in my consumption.

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 11:27 am

coalnewbie wrote:Wait a minute there cs, have you figured in my consumption.
Ooops! Make that 2-300 years. :)

 
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Post by titleist1 » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 12:19 pm

coalnewbie wrote:Wait a minute there cs, have you figured in my consumption.
CN...it would help extend the coal reserves about 100 years if you quit trying to send warm air Freetown Fred's way and closed the barn door occasionally! :D

 
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Post by ad356 » Fri. Aug. 28, 2015 5:47 pm

if the green peace idiots have their way we will have enough to last forever. these idiots all want wind and solar but wind and solar does not output enough power. if they have it their way all coal power plants will be shut down and we would be living in the dark

 
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Post by deepwoods » Sun. Aug. 30, 2015 2:21 pm

ad356 wrote:if the green peace idiots have their way we will have enough to last forever. these idiots all want wind and solar but wind and solar does not output enough power. if they have it their way all coal power plants will be shut down and we would be living in the dark
Well said, could not agree more!!! That solyndra thing was a real hoot for the taxpayer's $. Would have been better spent on coal power improvements.


 
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Post by lsayre » Sun. Aug. 30, 2015 2:39 pm

I'm not disputing that there is assuredly a lot of coal. I will merely add that all forms of energy must be carefully considered with respect to the concept known as "EROEI" (Energy Returned On Energy Invested).

EROEI states that when the energy (not the money mind you) invested in the act itself of procuring and bringing to market any given form of energy exceeds the energy that can be brought forth from that which was procured and marketed, it is simply and factually game over.

When seen through this vital lens, the massive and virtually indisputable known reserves of coal shrink dramatically, since far more of it exists in places and concentrations and energy levels that are not worth extracting (on an energy basis, not on a monetary basis) than exists in places and concentrations where the energy returned exceeds the energy expended to facilitate the extraction, purification, distribution, and marketing (all of which labors require energy).

 
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Post by lsayre » Sun. Aug. 30, 2015 2:53 pm

In light of the above I will (admittedly out of context to this thread) mention in passing that one of the highest hopes for a future form of energy that mankind is presently heavily banking upon (that being the "Fuel Cell") has a major fundamental flaw. Fuels cells require hydrogen, and there is virtually no free hydrogen left on the earth. Therefore hydrogen must be extracted from water or natural gas, or something else. But the energy required to extract hydrogen from water or from natural gas is and will always be (as attested by the second law of thermodynamics) greater than the return that one can get from its subsequent application within a hydrogen fuel cell.

Therefore fuel cells (just like any other form of battery, which is all they are) are net energy losers. The ramifications of banking so heavily upon the conception that some day fuel cells will be our salvation from the inevitable depletion of our other forms of energy will some day come back to haunt us. The only real hope in the long run is that solar or wind can be applied to the extraction of hydrogen.
Last edited by lsayre on Sun. Aug. 30, 2015 3:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Sun. Aug. 30, 2015 2:53 pm

EROEI states that when the energy (not the money mind you) invested in the act itself of procuring and bringing to market any given form of energy exceeds the energy that can be brought forth from that which was procured and marketed, it is simply and factually game over.

When seen through this vital lens, the massive and virtually indisputable known reserves of coal shrink dramatically, since far more of it exists in places and concentrations and energy levels that are not worth extracting (on an energy basis, not on a monetary basis) than exists in places and concentrations where the energy returned exceeds the energy expended to facilitate the extraction, purification, distribution, and marketing (all of which labors require energy).
Ouch, now I have a headache, I need to put another lump on the fire.

 
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Sun. Aug. 30, 2015 5:01 pm

Dibs ..

 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Aug. 30, 2015 6:29 pm

Larry, well said and I couldn't agree more. I'm waiting to see how cold fusion turns out.

 
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Post by lsayre » Sun. Aug. 30, 2015 7:54 pm

Lightning wrote:Larry, well said and I couldn't agree more. I'm waiting to see how cold fusion turns out.
If anyone doing the research ever reports the actual detection of the expected radioactive byproducts of duterium + duterium fusion into helium I will become far more interested in it than I am today.

 
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Post by waldo lemieux » Sun. Aug. 30, 2015 8:19 pm

lsayre wrote:The only real hope in the long run is that solar or wind can be applied to the extraction of hydrogen.
Or geothermal. :idea:
Lets say we have geothermal turbines in places like Iceland or any volcanicly active area and we use the electricity to electrolize
water resulting hydrogen and oxygen . much more potential the either solar or wind in my estimation. same goes for wave or tidal generation, since many of the areas that make these possible are too remote for electrical grid connection.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Sun. Aug. 30, 2015 10:22 pm

We burn about one billion tons per year, the mines that are active right now have enough supply to last for almost 20 years.

Here's is the estimates produced by the EIA of what is left. The important number is the 256 billion tons labeled "Estimated Recoverable Reserves". This is coal that is known to exist, has been measured and can be feasibly mined using current technology. Adjusted for increased usage it is enough for about 175 years. It's a vast resource, new technology will supplant it before we even begin to fully tap into it.
coal_reserves_pyramid-large.jpg
.JPG | 69KB | coal_reserves_pyramid-large.jpg
One has to understand the seams out west are 100's of feet thick.

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