Considering Coal? How to Equate Coal to Your Present Fuel

General energy and coal related topics, news and basic information. If you do not know where to post your topic post it here.
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2001Sierra
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Posts: 1844
Joined: Wed. May. 20, 2009 8:09 am
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent
Location: Wynantskill NY, 10 miles from Albany

Post Sun. Feb. 09, 2014 5:36 pm

1/3 of my original cost, stove room 8 degrees warmer than the house which would of been at the oil burning set point 68 degrees maybe :lol:

My year total coal costs are approaching what folks are paying for 1 tank of oil in my neighborhood, very similar homes :o


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coaledsweat
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Posts: 9820
Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Location: Guilford, Connecticut

Post Sun. Feb. 09, 2014 6:32 pm

Rigar wrote:...btw-
is oil really a solid fuel??? :D
You didn't mention oil in your post nor did you answer the question.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

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Scottscoaled
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Posts: 2597
Joined: Tue. Jan. 08, 2008 9:51 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup
Location: Malta N.Y.

Post Sun. Feb. 09, 2014 6:41 pm

wsherrick wrote:All of this stuff was exhaustively researched over a Century ago. I guess it's a good thing that there are people who want to reinvent the wheel, because; the first wheel inventing has been forgotten or the results found then are refused to be believed.
I think it is a little bit of both.
It was found that base burners are much more efficient than boilers or furnaces,
The average base burner efficiency was found to be around 80%. That's not the high end, that's the average.
The average coal stove of any kind was found to be in the 70% range.
Boilers and hot air furnaces were in the 50 to 60 percent range.
I know it is hard for the lovers of gadgets and the tinkerers to accept it, but; that's the way it is. There's always room for gadget hounds and their endless fascination with auxiliary gizmos.
I'm not knocking it. Everybody needs a hobby.
I or franco or anybody else can put up stuff all day about the obvious efficiency of these old stoves and it still won't be believed or accepted by the gizmo groupies. I've long since discovered this and so be it.
To each his own.
Well, as far as I know, they didn't extensively research my boiler 100 years ago. It is a 1987 model. While it might not be 87% as was SUGGESTED by the manual, I do find it to be extremely economical to operate compared to other boilers I have ran or set up.
I think a man does what he can, untill his destiny is revealed. Right now that is trying to sell my EFM plate boilers in 520 and 700 sizes.

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coaledsweat
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Location: Guilford, Connecticut

Post Sun. Feb. 09, 2014 6:50 pm

Scottscoaled wrote:Well, as far as I know, they didn't extensively research my boiler 100 years ago. It is a 1987 model. While it might not be 87% as was SUGGESTED by the manual, I do find it to be extremely economical to operate compared to other boilers I have ran or set up.
Your Van Wert should operate in the 80% range give or take a few.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

Rigar
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Posts: 857
Joined: Tue. Dec. 04, 2012 6:30 am
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace
Location: central new york (syracuse area)

Post Mon. Feb. 10, 2014 7:33 am

coaledsweat wrote:
Rigar wrote:...btw-
is oil really a solid fuel??? :D
You didn't mention oil in your post nor did you answer the question.
... okay I will try again.... and I will be typing very slowly because you are not a fast reader...
I did not feel the need to mention oil in my post is this entire thread is based on comparing ALL methods of fuel..(check out the ORIGINAL post by Larry)
...solid AND liquid fuels are compared..
Secondly...gas and propane appliances do work in the same 'fashion'... to the extent that both provide heat to your home...
the biggest difference ( compared to solid fuel burners) is and how they cycle...
they are either on or off.... with most newer ones modulating... as opposed to solid fuel... which needs to burn constantly( even if only a small 'timed' burn.... to maintain a fire....which may take its toll on its "efficiency"... depending onrequired load.....
hope that was clear enough for ya :D
....'Rigar

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Carbon12
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Posts: 2230
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Post Mon. Feb. 10, 2014 7:50 am

Back in my oil company days, during really cold weather, I saw a lot of outside oil tanks that had gummed up to a point that the oil was nearly solid :lol:
No matter where you go,......there you are.

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Flyer5
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
Location: Montrose PA
Contact:

Post Mon. Feb. 10, 2014 9:00 am

Carbon12 wrote:Back in my oil company days, during really cold weather, I saw a lot of outside oil tanks that had gummed up to a point that the oil was nearly solid :lol:
Living up to the avatar. :lol:
http://www.leisurelinestove.com


You know when people say it was "better back in my day"?

They were right.

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coaledsweat
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Location: Guilford, Connecticut

Post Mon. Feb. 10, 2014 12:06 pm

Rigar, your insults don't bother me. Admitting I was right was a step in the right direction. Now why don't you tell the members how this affects efficiency?
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.


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lsayre
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Posts: 12182
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Mon. Feb. 10, 2014 12:50 pm

I'm still trying to figure out how a rudimentary fuel equivalency post that was intended to be helpful ended up being an all out Donnybrook slug-fest over efficiencies. :shock: :o
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

kstills
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Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Location: New Britain, PA

Post Mon. Feb. 10, 2014 1:34 pm

lsayre wrote:I'm still trying to figure out how a rudimentary fuel equivalency post that was intended to be helpful ended up being an all out Donnybrook slug-fest over efficiencies. :shock: :o
:lol:

I was wondering that myself. :)

Rigar
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Posts: 857
Joined: Tue. Dec. 04, 2012 6:30 am
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace
Location: central new york (syracuse area)

Post Mon. Feb. 10, 2014 1:50 pm

coaledsweat wrote:Rigar, your insults don't bother me. Admitting I was right was a step in the right direction. Now why don't you tell the members how this affects efficiency?
this is going in the opposite direction the OP was considering (IMO)
...With all due respect...i wasnt the one that suggested a coal burning stove with 80+ percent effeciency would have stack temps near room temperature....
i merely demonstrated how even highly efficient appliances (albiet NG or propane) can have relatively high temp exhaust gases
....I ''ll apologize to all members now for goin off topic...
however....I'll never admit you were right....because you werent.

Kuddos to Larry for the time spent on a very wortwhile comparison! :clap: :clap:
....'Rigar

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windyhill4.2
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038

Post Mon. Feb. 10, 2014 2:26 pm

TOPIC ALERT!! Back to the topic.... Considering coal? Yes,we are considering coal !! Coal vs.present fuel,.... Wood ,lots of wood ,but going to coal for fuel probably won't change the $$ spent by much. The BIG change will be the work load ... wood = LOTS & LOTS of work,hard work,coal,... much less work ,will depend on what set up we go with. How much wood ? .. 1 cord a week average since mid October 2013 ,highest usage was 1/2 cord in 24 hr period Jan. 7, 2014 , 8 * with 30+mph winds. At that 1 cord/wk avg. we should be at 1/2 ton of coal/wk ,maybe a bit less due to the better efficiency of the coal boiler vs outdoor wood burner.Now, that is the way I see it with my simple mind,you guys with your scientific brains fight over the most complex % of things like your life depended on it.It will be interesting to see what you can come up with on this. Hope I stayed close enough to topic ,OH & SMILE ,it won't hurt you :!: :)
David **** John14:6 Jesus saith unto him,"I am the way.the truth,and the life;no man cometh unto the father,but by me." Wise men sought for Jesus when he was born,wise men still seek Jesus today. Seek & you shall find.

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Horace
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman ST8-VF8 / Frankenstove
Location: Central PA

Post Wed. Feb. 12, 2014 11:33 am

Larry:

Thanks for coming up with this. I'm looking at a house that burns oil in a boiler. Of course, I want to replace it with coal, but wanted to get a general idea of what it would cost to heat with coal. I called the oil company and got the gallons delivered from them. Using your chart, I can calculate the coal equivalent.

$5,005 vs $2060

That number gets better is the oil boiler is less efficient than what I used, and the coal boiler is more efficient than 75%. But, this gives me a great start.

Thanks!
The best weapon and tool one can ever possess is patience.

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Rob R.
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Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy
Location: Chazy, NY

Post Wed. Feb. 12, 2014 12:55 pm

I have installed stoker boilers in a few houses that were heated with modern oil boilers...as a general rule, the previous fuel oil consumption compared to coal consumption came out pretty close to 180 gallons of fuel to 1 ton of anthracite coal. That is heating the same square footage to the same temperature as before...and with a warmer basement due to radiant heat off the boiler. Many people keep their house warmer when burning coal, so your mileage may vary.
Horace wrote:That number gets better is the oil boiler is less efficient than what I used, and the coal boiler is more efficient than 75%. But, this gives me a great start.
Good observation. The less efficient the current oil unit is, the more you stand to save by installing a stoker boiler.

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Carbon12
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Post Wed. Feb. 12, 2014 1:59 pm

Yup, I'm pretty even with burning 1 ton of coal for every degree day scheduled automatic oil delivery previously,......Plus, I'm making DHW with the coal. Had been electric hot water heater before with oil for heat only.
No matter where you go,......there you are.


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