If This True, No Reason for Anyone to Burn Coal Anymore

samhill · Post by **samhill** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 8:22 am

They are already shipping NG to Europe where they can get a better price, as more plants come on line to liquefy the price will go up.

jpete · Post by **jpete** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 8:33 am

I have NG running down my street, and although my other house had it and I liked it for cooking, you can't deny that #2 fuel oil or coal rarely blow your house up.

I can think of 3 houses in a 5mi radius of here that have gone up in my life. That seems like a lot.

Hambden Bob · Post by **Hambden Bob** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 9:00 am

Well,it's kinda' amazing how us dumb 'ol humans get sucked into the same 'ol con-game again and again......NG's price is down...for now...way down...Obama's EPA loves NG.....They failed at getting solar and wind's price down,so NG won out as their deemed "clean fuel of choice". So let's get everyone on the NG Bandwagon while it's cheap. That'll help consumers ignore the high price of new hook-ups,upgraded existing gas taps and laterals to structures,and changeovers to those expensive to repair high efficiency furnaces....Cool....Whoops,I've got you hooked,and your basically committed to the NG God,and now it's time to drain the flock and raise prices due to various flimsy excuses. Seems like we've seen this before with heroin,crack,meth,petroleum products and the list goes on and on.....Avoid the knee-jerk reactions gang ! Do your homework. All that glitters is definitely not gold. I've witnessed a few cheap snapper-heads stop by this board and simply look for any way possible to turn a nickel into a quarter after bumming that nickel off of you ! Coal,whether it be Anthracite or Bituminous represents alot more than just saving cash against oil or propane. It has represented control over a heating budget,fuel supply on hand,heatability during a major storm or calamity(hand-fired without generator) and a general sense of well being and self sufficiency. In the Energy World,somebody's always going to view a good,decent guy as a sucker-chump or a loser.....an addict,if you will. Make your best,wisest decisions remembering there's no free lunch,and you should be ok.....A belated "Merry Christmas","Happy Hannukah" to our giffelte Brother's and Sisters' and a Hopeful "Happy New Year" to all !

coalnewbie · Post by **coalnewbie** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 9:10 am

I think everybody else should switch to NG immediately, it's the greatest fuel and is the future. So now off you all go now, rush now, I will miss you all.

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 11:11 am

freetown fred wrote:Ain't that the way that always seems to work out. Personally, I think anyone gullible enough to buy into all this crap should definitely have at it. It might help our prices.

Sadly, if nearly everyone went over to NG, the coal industry would likely be forced to contract (with many bankruptcies among the mines), and prices for remaining coal would probably go up a bunch. In fact, this is likely how the coal industry of today got to be merely a ghost of its former self (vs. many decades past), and why coal is currently so expensive. The better bet for price reduction would likely be for more people to show a consistent annual need for coal, and for the industry to have to greatly expand and become far more efficient as a result.

coalnewbie · Post by **coalnewbie** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 11:25 am

No, this is the New America. I park my loader next to the now defunct Jeddo shovel and dig my own coal. As a concerned environmentalist I promise when I finish digging I will turn it into the Hazleton Eco Park. Of course, I never do any such thing and once I have extracted my free coal I get a $500MM (I'm a small thinker) grant to convert it to a park. When they come for me as I have done nothing, I will declare bankruptcy, I will then state I have no idea where the money all went. Hey, it's working, dream up your own idea. It's a new America we must all adjust.

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 11:30 am

:punk:

CapeCoaler · Post by **CapeCoaler** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 12:21 pm

Gas cost me $1.19 per therm on this months bill...
The gas part was $.70/therm...
just shy of $15/mbtu...
Coal is less than $5/mbtu for me...

Nice to have options but...
King Coal for me...

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 12:39 pm

I thought a therm was 100,000 BTU's. If that is the case, then 1 million BTU's would require 10 therms. At $0.70/Therm that would be only $7 per MBTU.

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 12:47 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:Gas cost me $1.19 per therm on this months bill...
The gas part was $.70/therm...
just shy of $15/mbtu...
Coal is less than $5/mbtu for me...
Nice to have options but...
King Coal for me...

Not trying to be picky, but isn't a therm = 100k btu? So $1.19/therm = $11.90 per million btu?

And if there are like 12,250 usable btu/lb with coal, I think you'd have to get your coal for around $120/ton to be at the $5/million BTU level. Coal is still cheap, but NG has gotten much more competitive, at least in the short term.

Mike

coalnewbie · Post by **coalnewbie** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 12:50 pm

Isayer, I think you are correct. So now NG is becoming too cheap to meter. As a young lad I was told nuclear power would be too cheap to meter too. When the F U **KU** shima (trying not to get censored) reactors blow up in a steam cloud from hell (be patient), nuclear power will be too expensive even to calculate the damage.

Sting · Post by **Sting** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 12:53 pm

same thing happened in the late 60's
NG exploration and production went up
price came down

When you fail to learn from history - your doomed to relive it

and I am reliving with a smile

coalnewbie · Post by **coalnewbie** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 1:18 pm

When you fail to learn from history - your doomed to relive it

Boy there are some smart cookies around here! Study the 1893 railroad driven crash. Boy this looks scarily similar. Trashed the place and as we were on a gold standard we could not just print. Until in 1913........ the rest is history and we are going to relive it in spades - lucky us.

murphyslaw · Post by **murphyslaw** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 1:34 pm

Alaska has some of the cheapest NG prices in the country. at .67CCF. After taxes and fees it comes to .97CCF at my meter. With my boiler(old as dirt) It cost me an average of 300 bones a month during the heating season. With coal I am at 1.2tons a month. And I get it up the street for 140/ton or drive a few hrs and get it for 80/ton. I am still saving more then 100 bucks a month by being "dirty" And I will tell ya, Its easier, cleaner and cheaper then wood. And even the wife agrees. She loves the heat. This is the first year with coal, and the first year we have had our house over 70*. Cheaper then NG, easier then wood. And warmer then either Its a WIN WIN WIN!!!

CapeCoaler · Post by **CapeCoaler** » Tue. Dec. 27, 2011 2:25 pm

Yep, gas bill has two parts...
The actual gas at $.70/therm or $7/mbtu...
and the delivery at $.49/therm or $4.90/mbtu...
Then the 80% efficiency factor...
Yes the coal I burn is cheap...
I figure it cost me about $80/ton...
Surban Shallow Mining...
AKA basement coal reclaimation...

If I were paying retail prices for coal...
I would switch to gas while it was cheap...
And be banking the coal pile...
While the mining was good...