Why Is Nobody Burning Coal ???

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morso
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Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 1:23 pm

Hi I am originally for the UK and although our Coal mining industry was destroyed Margaret Thatcher , you can still buy coal of all types, most places normally , at gas stations, or in many places the Coal Man still delivers once a week. Since moving to the Usa I am surprised how hard it is to get Coal, and how disconnected the general public is from using coal at home, I burn coal on my Coal Stove on my, boat in New York but at Home in Arkansas it seems nobody even thinks about it as a form of heating for the home, In my home town you cannot buy it anywhere, yet in the same town thousands of tons go through by train every day, on its way to the power station, When Driving back and forward from Ar to Ny, I often stop of this coal producing states looking for Bituminous house coal, with no luck, and many people look at you mystified when you ask if there are any local coal merchants.
I have talked to my local coal supplier in New York, and they tell me the same thing, that they have regular customers and once in a while the odd excited person will drop in interested in coal, because they found out about it on the internet.
My point is that the coal industry is being lazy promoting coal as a viable source of home heating, I know that it could never replace the amount used to make electric, but if people started to use it at home, they would become more familiar with coal, and more likely to stand up for its use as a energy source. this will help protect Jobs. I lived through the Coal Strikes in the UK and saw the devastation as the pits shut, I would hate to see it happen here.
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Paulie
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Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 1:28 pm

Traditionally, oil and gas were easier and the same money. Now, coal makes more sense money wise. Most Americans are lazy, so solid fuel is not popular, but that is changing. Not that long ago, it was all coal. Everything old is new again!

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lsayre
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Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 1:36 pm

I was born in 1955, and I grew up in the poverty of very inner-city Cleveland, Ohio. My parents house was heated by natural gas, but the houses immediately on either side of us burned coal for heat clear into my teen years before also changing over.
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

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morso
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Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 1:42 pm

As people can increasingly no longer afford expensive foreign oil many are turning to wood, it's very labor intensive and hard to store. With improvements in coal stove design it is now very clean and easy to use coal, it's just a matter of educating the masses.

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freetown fred
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Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 2:20 pm

morso, familiar with the concept of supply & demand ?? When & if people find an interest in heating with coal, there are many channels of realistic info. sources. I mean, Look, here you are. :) I for one do not go beating on doors pushing coal use. For example, as stated, people are basically lazy. Many would jump on the coal band wagon, only to realize that it takes some actual work, so they fade. Examples---BMW's & Harley Davidsons--all the yuppy's got right into them because it was keeping up with the Jones's & being cool for the moment. Well, what happened--YEP, prices skyrocketed--then most got tired of those toys & gave them up for a new ego toy,- but notice, prices never come down :( -SUV's, snow machines, water craft--look at the prices of them today. I hate to think about that happening in the coal society that most of us try to keep a LITTLE secretive. OK, OK, I know, I'm rambling but I think I got this old guys thoughts out there. Later my friend
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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morso
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Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 3:42 pm

freetown fred wrote:morso, familiar with the concept of supply & demand ?? When & if people find an interest in heating with coal, there are many channels of realistic info. sources. I mean, Look, here you are. :) I for one do not go beating on doors pushing coal use. For example, as stated, people are basically lazy. Many would jump on the coal band wagon, only to realize that it takes some actual work, so they fade. Examples---BMW's & Harley Davidsons--all the yuppy's got right into them because it was keeping up with the Jones's & being cool for the moment. Well, what happened--YEP, prices skyrocketed--then most got tired of those toys & gave them up for a new ego toy,- but notice, prices never come down :( -SUV's, snow machines, water craft--look at the prices of them today. I hate to think about that happening in the coal society that most of us try to keep a LITTLE secretive. OK, OK, I know, I'm rambling but I think I got this old guys thoughts out there. Later my friend
Well I can see your point about not wanting coal to become a designer fuel, (never did understand the whole wood pellet stove thing) but my point is unless Coal is made to be a thing that the average person is made more familiar with it, will remain out very own little Secret, so when the powers that be want to shut the coal power stations rather that look at better and better ways of burning our secure, abundant, home grown power source. nobody will care.

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freetown fred
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Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 3:54 pm

Do you really believe that the tree-huggers will ever be convinced that COAL is a GOOD energy source? They seem to be totally close minded except concerning things relative to their own agenda's Come 2012, I think we might (HOPEFULLY) have some of the powers to be, that are looking at the Coal World & starting to get some of the facts straight. I know I have spoken with my local Senator & discussed with him the ridiculousness of shutting down that energy source. Most of my local coal burning friends have done likewise with their local representatives. That is something we as coal burners CAN do. I think I saw you are a New Yorker?? Make some noise my friend where it matters. ;) :oops2: I meant Arkansas. toothy
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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morso
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Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 5:19 pm

freetown fred wrote:Do you really believe that the tree-huggers will ever be convinced that COAL is a GOOD energy source? They seem to be totally close minded except concerning things relative to their own agenda's Come 2012, I think we might (HOPEFULLY) have some of the powers to be, that are looking at the Coal World & starting to get some of the facts straight. I know I have spoken with my local Senator & discussed with him the ridiculousness of shutting down that energy source. Most of my local coal burning friends have done likewise with their local representatives. That is something we as coal burners CAN do. I think I saw you are a New Yorker?? Make some noise my friend where it matters. ;) :oops2: I meant Arkansas. toothy
Well thank you for taking the time to your local Senator, Slightly off the theme but my local coal supplier told me that Bituminous coal is hard to come by because it is mined and shipped straight to china where they are stock piling loads of it, I don't know if this is true, but if so it means we are giving them our jobs, money , and natural resources. but I guess it helps the trade deficit look better.
In the UK when they shut the pits down it was awful, whole community's, just fell apart, 60/70% in some towns were left with no jobs, many places in South Wales have never really recovered, at this time Dad worked for Dowty Mining making automatic pit chocks, at that time Dowty had a world patent for part of the hydraulic system, China wanted a few chocks to test, Dowty had never let the technology fall in to China's hand, but with the mines all shutting in desperation to keep the plant open they took some over, you can guess what happened next, no more was heard and Dowty mining shut laying off 1000's. The government, to prove mining was not profitable, spent a fortune on new machinery for the mines, when they closed the mines and allowed them to flood, it was all left underground much of it was all new, Now we still use a lot of coal, but most of it is dirty brown coal imported from old eastern block country's, and it is reckoned it costs 4 times more than if we mined our own coal. Whats my point? Government don't care about you or me I don't trust any of them, what ever party they belong to and don't see any reason at this time to change my opinion of them


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nortcan
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Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 5:28 pm

Hi morso and welcome to the forum and to America (and don't forget Canada is also in America LOL)
I did exactly the same as you when I began to love anthracite burning. Lot of things were frustrating me when talking about ant. At that time, all was not good for me: I found that the ant stoves were ugly, did not perform very well and not easily to operate, were poorly designed...and I hated the word coal (anthracite is a nicier word...and gives away the all bad ideas about coal, so often associated with dirt, black smoke from trains, poor wokers like in Dickens' books..............).
So I did my homeworks and all got back to a pleasant world, THE ANTHRACITE WORLD!
Viva America. If you think it's hard to get ant where you are, just come up in Qc, we have good Blashack to bun.

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Cap
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Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 8:55 pm

Hi Morso,
Anthracite coal was widely used in PA for heat, even in the big city of Philadelphia way back in the mid 1900's and earlier. My dad burned coal as a kid on Tabor Rd in Philly. When oil became easily available many homes switched over to oil. And then natural gas became popular.

Anthracite is really only mined in PA here in the USA. It is too costly to ship. England also has large reserves of Anthracite. Now, if you are speaking about Bituminous coal , this is the coal used in power plants and is much more widely available across the USA. This is the coal you see in the rail cars. It does not burn quite as nice as Anthracite for use in the home. Although it may actually provide more btu's. Some here use Bit and can provide more info regarding its use.
Cap
Lehigh Twp.
Northampton Co., PA

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lsayre
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Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 9:11 pm

Why is it that we can efficiently and economically ship vast multitudes of goods across the country and even around the world, but when it comes to Anthracite, purchase it 300 miles from the source and suddenly it costs up to twice as much or more than it does locally?
-Larry

Democracy rests upon the principle that collective wisdom arises from a pool of individual ignorance. A Republic rests squarely upon objective law, and fundamentally upon those laws which restrict the scope and actions of government.

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morso
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Post Mon. Oct. 31, 2011 8:26 pm

lsayre wrote:Why is it that we can efficiently and economically ship vast multitudes of goods across the country and even around the world, but when it comes to Anthracite, purchase it 300 miles from the source and suddenly it costs up to twice as much or more than it does locally?
I don't know. Its all part of this odd world of Coal burning, You would think that Coal Producers would keep Coal as cheap as possible, to compete with oil and gas and promote it as the best and cheapest way to heat your home. They seem to think a few signs on the Freeway will get people on side, I am afraid it wont cut it, the people who want to destroy the coal industry, are making a far better effort to get people on there side. I noticed that the Local Home Depot no longer stock any form of stove pipe or stove accessories I guess everybody just wants to flick a switch.

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freetown fred
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Post Mon. Oct. 31, 2011 8:34 pm

Guys, coal producers keep their prices fine--now, let's look at the dealers--trucking, labor, :blah: plus, throw in a good dose of supply & demand mentality --oft referred to as GREED--with some of these dealers and I think you've got your numbers all covered. I contend that the majority of the dealers I've come in contact with are real straight shooters & fair minded people. BUT, as in any business, you've got your theives. Just this old guys thoughts.
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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Richard S.
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Post Tue. Nov. 01, 2011 2:22 am

lsayre wrote:Why is it that we can efficiently and economically ship vast multitudes of goods across the country and even around the world, but when it comes to Anthracite, purchase it 300 miles from the source and suddenly it costs up to twice as much or more than it does locally?
Because no one is set up to receive it via rail ad has enough customer base to sell it. Other than the rail costs, scale, scale house, loader, land to store it, some type of way to divide it, product loss through it getting crushed or even stolen......... Who's going to deliver it? A new high lift is about $35K just for lift. It's big expense, you need to sell 10,000 tons. If you can sell 10,000 tons you'll be able to severely undercut the competition which has a higher cost for bagged coal that is shipped via truck but has far less overhead once it arrives.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

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morso
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Post Tue. Nov. 01, 2011 8:37 am

Richard S. wrote:
lsayre wrote:Why is it that we can efficiently and economically ship vast multitudes of goods across the country and even around the world, but when it comes to Anthracite, purchase it 300 miles from the source and suddenly it costs up to twice as much or more than it does locally?
Because no one is set up to receive it via rail ad has enough customer base to sell it. Other than the rail costs, scale, scale house, loader, land to store it, some type of way to divide it, product loss through it getting crushed or even stolen......... Who's going to deliver it? A new high lift is about $35K just for lift. It's big expense, you need to sell 10,000 tons. If you can sell 10,000 tons you'll be able to severely undercut the competition which has a higher cost for bagged coal that is shipped via truck but has far less overhead once it arrives.
Yes I can understand it is very expensive to ship and sell coal, but as somebody mentioned he almost preferred coal for home use to remain a secret, so that the yuppies did not jump on the band wagon and push the prices up, I thought that the way it was supposed to work, was the more people wanted a product the more suppliers would be in the market, the more competitive the price.
I live on a boat most of the time so can not store much coal, so I have to by my coal by the bag, It is a 40+ mile drive the the coal supplier to buy bag coal? Ok I that that is my problem, The coal supplier bags his own coal why should it matter if I buy 1 bag or 10 to the price I am paying, his cost are the same?


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