"We Can Buy New Renewables Cheaper Than Existing Fossil Fuels"

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Tue. Nov. 06, 2018 4:59 pm

Heat is low grade energy and electric is a higher grade , so coal is good for home

heating and hot water , but heat cannot run appliances we use today.

Direct conversion of coal is not possible so we upgrade the form of energy to

heat we need but at a loss of part of the energy.

That is why heating with electric resistive heaters is so expensive. You are turning

fuel to electric and then using it as heat that you already had a loss on.

Coal has many other costs associated with it besides it BTU content.

Shipping,moving around in the yard,storage , waste disposal all add costs.

BigBarney

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Post By: coalnewbie » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 4:34 am

Indeed electricity is a costly form of energy and to use that for transportation is just silly.

Can you imagine that as we extract hydrocarbons from the ground be it the lighter fractions (NG) that we purify and pump to power stations to make electricity. Or the heavier fractions that makes gas and diesel etc.etc. Here is the incredible stupidity ... we use these fractions to make steam to make electricity at about 30% efficiency. We then transmit it to the site of use over the grid hence losing another 30% at least. Can you imagine that people then take this electricity, store into batteries with more losses and travel down the road with it and somehow think this is the future.

Here is a brilliant idea. Take those hydrocarbons directly and use it in your vehicle directly. This would be much more efficient avoiding those many losses. Feel free to patent this idea to make your fortunes.

As my grandma said .. "None so queer as folk"

I ignore solar as despite incredible expenditures and govt grants it is still a second order energy source. NG and coal is where it is at. Shame we can't burn coal in our cars.

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lsayre
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Post By: lsayre » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 4:46 am

The problem with that is internal combustion engines are also only between 25% and 33% efficient. Formula 1 cars have topped 50% ICE efficiency, so significant improvement assuredly can be achieved, but at a very high cost.

Electric motors are between 90% and 98% efficient, with most at the lower end of this scale.

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Post By: coalnewbie » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 7:41 am

Of course, but if you lost 60% getting it to the car what have you gained with this EV nonsense.


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lsayre
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Post By: lsayre » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 11:07 am

coalnewbie wrote:
Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 7:41 am
Of course, but if you lost 60% getting it to the car what have you gained with this EV nonsense.
I agree, so you lop off the inefficiencies of the EV's electric motor(s) and also the inefficiency associated with the EV's battery bank, and it is down to 25-30% efficient, just like an ICE. So unless electricity is made 100% from renewables you might as well just burn fuel in your vehicle rather than having an electric power company burn it. I'm happy with a 450 mile range and gas stations everywhere I go.

I just heard on the radio where Ohio's two nuclear power plants along Lake Erie are slated to be decommissioned and converted over to natural gas. A result of NG being plentiful around here due to fracking.

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Post By: coalnewbie » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 11:28 am

A result of NG being plentiful around here due to fracking.
I am happy for you. More for coal but less for NG.

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 12:07 pm

You got the right answer by using onsite renewable energy from

the sun you make an electric car unbeatable, Eliminate the loss in

transmission and production and you got it. Only the battery loss

of ~10% is good to go.

No petrol car can compete at 25% efficiency.

Canada at 8% electric ,Norway at~55%+ ,we are on the way, only

need more car brands to sell and the share will rise rapidly.

BigBarney

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Post By: Sunny Boy » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 12:28 pm

BigBarney wrote:
Tue. Nov. 06, 2018 4:59 pm
Heat is low grade energy and electric is a higher grade , so coal is good for home

heating and hot water , but heat cannot run appliances we use today.

Direct conversion of coal is not possible so we upgrade the form of energy to

heat we need but at a loss of part of the energy.

That is why heating with electric resistive heaters is so expensive. You are turning

fuel to electric and then using it as heat that you already had a loss on.

Coal has many other costs associated with it besides it BTU content.

Shipping,moving around in the yard,storage , waste disposal all add costs.

BigBarney
And once it leaves the power plant, so does transmitting electric power. Maintaining/repairing the poles and lines, the right of ways, servicing/replacing transformers, and fleets of special expensive service trucks and trained union staff, and all other lines and equipment right up to including your electric meter. Then there's the costs of their massive billing, collections, customer service, and PR departments.

And if it wasn't for the State Power Authority's oversite and rate control we'd be paying far more for electricity.

Back in the late 70's and 80's, LILCO (Long Island Lighting Company) with the then highest rates in the nation (16 cents/KWH by 1990), tried to cut back on their maintenance costs to please their share holders. When hurricane Gloria hit long Island in 1985, the damage was made much worse because of their years of cutting back the cost of tree trimming near power lines. The resulting backlash lead to the breakup of LILCO's control of all the electric and gas business of Long Island, which was split-up and handed over to other companies.

Paul


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Post By: coalnewbie » Thu. Nov. 08, 2018 1:57 pm

You got the right answer by using onsite renewable energy from

the sun you make an electric car unbeatable, Eliminate the loss in

transmission and production and you got it. Only the battery loss

of ~10% is good to go.
and just how big will that solar field have to be for an average commuter to keep his EV going. Soooo stupid.

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Sunny Boy
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Post By: Sunny Boy » Thu. Nov. 08, 2018 2:39 pm

coalnewbie wrote:
Thu. Nov. 08, 2018 1:57 pm
and just how big will that solar field have to be for an average commuter to keep his EV going. Soooo stupid.
And, in our northern climates where the sun's angle is lower, so less available solar wattage per square foot, and many months of cloudy weather and snow fall per year.

Yeah, that's like the electric version of the gas shortage years. :lol:

Paul

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franpipeman
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Post By: franpipeman » Thu. Nov. 15, 2018 4:49 pm

My sons array make his greatest solar production in February 45kwh per day . the air is cleaner and no leaves on tree . Granted the day is shorter but snow reflects on the panels and makes production greater

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