Coal Power Plants

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Fri. Jan. 12, 2018 12:00 pm

To start the discussion ....

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/01/09/ferc-rejects ... l-nuclear/

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/01/09/ferc-thumbs- ... ency-plan/

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/10/trump-energy-ally ... bsidy.html

Clearly rejecting subsidies for coal generation .

Many power plants are closing and not being replaced.

See where this leads to many more renewable supply at super competitive costs.

BigBarney


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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 11:00 pm

More bad news for power generators , many for sale at pennies on the dollar , and

even at these prices there are no buyers. Renewables are taking the market , no fossil

fuel plant can compete. You can't beat zero fuel costs.


http://link.utilitydive.com/view/59e79177ff530a6d ... 2/c0b406c6


https://qz.com/1179753/by-2020-renewable-electric ... ity%20Dive


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Rob R.
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Post By: Rob R. » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 5:29 am

I am all for economical, reliable energy, but the last thing I want to hear is that I need to reduce my power consumption for a few days because it is cloudy, or there is no wind. I understand there are solutions for that in development, but they have not come down in cost nearly as quickly as the power generating equipment.

Regardless of the cost of solar of wind, I think fossil fuel plants will be an important part of the mix for a long time.

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Post By: CoalJockey » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 6:54 am

So now you seem to think you are going to rely 100% on renewables to power the infrastructure for all these EV cars and trucks you wish to put on the road? I just didn’t see the bigger picture earlier!

This could very well be the most far out thing I’ve ever heard, but I for the sake of civility I digress knowing this will be another one-way conversation. But call me if you need a ride...

Keep moving folks, nothing to see here.

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Post By: titleist1 » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 7:18 am

Hmmmmm.....did the OP read the second half of the second article? Seems even they realize fossil fuels aren't going away.

But cost isn’t the only consideration in the wider adoption of renewable energy. Power from solar photovoltaics and the wind are intermittent. So even if the costs of generation fall, other sources of power—typically fossil fuels or nuclear—will be needed to fill in the gaps, and those producers will be able to charge more.

Varun Sivaram, an expert in solar power at the Council on Foreign Relations, has shown that intermittent power sources suffer from value deflation as they become more important in the energy mix. In a simulation of California’s power market, he found that “when a grid relies on solar power for 15% of its total energy needs, the value of solar falls by more than half,”

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Post By: Sunny Boy » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 9:26 am

Part of the problem so far has been that all the "renewable" forms of energy can't keep up with the ever increasing demand. Even with all the push to energy saving appliances and LED lighting, demand for electricity is increasing every year, faster than adding renewable sources can keep pace with.

If we push for more electric vehicles the yearly demand will increase even faster. Something has to meet that demand and guess how that will be met.

Paul

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Post By: windyhill4.2 » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 9:57 am

CoalJockey wrote:
Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 6:54 am
So now you seem to think you are going to rely 100% on renewables to power the infrastructure for all these EV cars and trucks you wish to put on the road? I just didn’t see the bigger picture earlier!

This could very well be the most far out thing I’ve ever heard, but I for the sake of civility I digress knowing this will be another one-way conversation. But call me if you need a ride...

Keep moving folks, nothing to see here.
I've been trying to think of something to add to CJ's post :annoyed: .....

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Post By: coalnewbie » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 10:41 am

I've been trying to think of something to add to CJ's post :annoyed: .....
Here is something. I make three rules of people interaction in this life. Never argue politics, religion or other zealots. I't s just a waste of time. However, BB I do wish you luck with your car. Just remember to always pack that survival kit.


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Post By: BigBarney » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 12:12 pm

This is not a all or one supply but a blend of all sources. Just the renewables have a

large cost advantage over all the fossil plants even after adding the storage needed

to supply the demand. This is not going to be a fast change but a slow one because

of the huge stranded capital that has been invested by the utilities on plants with a

fifty year useful life , and who will pay to discontinue their use . The utilities want

rate payers to bear this cost , when a plant that costed 3 Billion to build is not worth

rehabbing and cannot even be sold for the 125 Million some one has to bear the pain.

This is not an argument but a statement of fact.

The circular loop in this article is the future , but this will take time to come.

The time period is shrinking with new tech and increases in efficiency.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-energy-storage-win/

See this;

"Well, actually better than free. California produced so much solar power on those days that it paid Arizona to take excess electricity its residents weren’t using to avoid overloading its own power lines."

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-electricity-solar/

"City officials and builders in Redondo Beach want a mixed-use development to replace the current natural gas facility. They say there is no need to overhaul the power plant when there is an abundance of clean alternatives. (Rick Loomis/Los Angeles Times)"

How can fossil fuel compete....


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Post By: coalnewbie » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 12:38 pm

Why do Californians pay 50% more than the national average? That excludes the staggering infrastructure costs so far. Californians should pay far less than the national average by the fundamental laws of supply and demand.

Also you think that the energy needs of CA are the same as those needs for NE... aint so, not even close.

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Post By: titleist1 » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 1:43 pm

I hope the cost for solar keeps coming down. I would like to install a 4kw kit but it needs to be in the $5k ballpark (including peripherals) for it to be worthwhile here.

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Post By: coalnewbie » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 2:38 pm

I hope the cost for solar keeps coming down. I would like to install a 4kw kit but it needs to be in the $5k ballpark (including peripherals) for it to be worthwhile here.
Do you know you can buy a wall charger for your cell phone and it will even work on cloudy days

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 3:43 pm

And it will cost less than $0.50 per year of use at $0.12 KWHr for wall juice....

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titleist1
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Post By: titleist1 » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 3:56 pm

coalnewbie wrote:
Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 2:38 pm
Do you know you can buy a wall charger for your cell phone and it will even work on cloudy days
BUY a wall charger?? Are you nuts throwing your money away like that??!! You can get them free from the lost and found at the local hotel. :D

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Post By: freetown fred » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 4:14 pm

Holy crap T, you got a local hotel???????????????????? .>)


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