Daughter Ripped Off?

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
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Devil505
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Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000
Location: SE Massachusetts

Post Sat. Sep. 13, 2008 8:52 am

Steve.N wrote:The retail price of the black TLC2000 stove without door is $1605.00 the door adds $188.00 for a total retail of $1793.


I think the solution for a Harman dealer is very simple: Advertise/sell the stove for $1793. Why do I need to know the price a dealer pays for the stove body & the door separately?? Then ,If the customer wants to upgrade to a gold door then just add the door price difference & you're done. The bottom line price of a TLC, to the customer should be $1793.00
(dealer costs are meaningless to me....All I want to know is what can I buy the "whole" stove for? :lol: )

I don't see a problem here??

Example:

A Chevy dealer doesn't sell his car for $14,000.00, but then deliver it without an engine unless the customer pays $4,000.00 more, does he? He charges $18,000.00 for the car (with engine) in the first place.
Why complicate a very easy thing??

On the other hand:

If I was an unscrupulous Harman dealer who intended to cheat the public, I would advertise a TLC at $1605.00. (we are speaking hypothetically here, of course! ;) ) When the customer was hooked & had started to sign the paperwork (or whenever I thought it was best to get away with it), I would then spring the little trap saying: " Oh, I forgot to mention......That $1605.00 price doesn't include a door."
(at which point, (switching roles here) if I was the customer I would say: " Funny thing......I forgot to mention that I am a Mass. State investigator &.........You are under arrest!......You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say........" :lol: :devil:

(Being the wise guy I can be sometimes, as the owner was being led away in cuffs I'm sure I would add: " BTW.....While your stoves don't come with a door, you can be assured that our jail cells do!"....Book him Danno!! :lol:
Last edited by Devil505 on Sat. Sep. 13, 2008 9:50 pm, edited 7 times in total.
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

CapeCoaler
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Location: Cape Cod, MA

Post Sat. Sep. 13, 2008 9:06 am

Every one makes mistakes at some points in their lives...
But this particular example seems to indicate that...
The incident may have been intentional.
The owner is responsible...
for any actions of their employee's.
If this was the first time...
They would be Ass-Kissing...
Instead of being belligerent...
They got caught...
And got called out...
They are lucky the AG's office did not get involved...
They got off cheap and were still pissed...
No signs of remorse...
Market forces at work...
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.

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Steve.N
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Location: Crown Point, NY East side of the state about 130 miles above Albany

Post Sat. Sep. 13, 2008 9:43 am

No argument from me Devil
Life without oil heat is sweet !

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traderfjp
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Post Sat. Sep. 13, 2008 10:25 am

If I call the dealer and ask the price of the Harman and he quotes me the price without the door it sounds less expensive. Then when you go to buy it they probably hit you with the option of the two doors. Here is the part Devil will like. The dealer could make an argument that the stove body is sold seperate from the stove because there are two door options and he can't afford to stock two doors for each stove. Then they could argue that the customer couldn't make up their minds about the door so they delivered the stove to make room for more stock. When the cutsomer called for the door they refused to pay for a basic door and wanted it for free. He would have to have this on a receipt somewhere to get a judge to believe this.
Last edited by traderfjp on Sat. Sep. 13, 2008 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in any coal or plumbing related field. I only post my own experiences, research and common sense. If you choose to use any of the information in this post or any other post you do so at your own risk.

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Devil505
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Post Sat. Sep. 13, 2008 10:50 am

traderfjp wrote:Here is the part Devil will like. The dealer could make an argument that the stove body is sold seperate from the stove because there are two door options and he can't afford to stock two doors for each stove. Then they could argue that the customer couldn't make up their minds about the door so they delivered the stove to make room for more stock.


At the end of the trial, the jury foreman steps forward & says: "We find the defendant......Dealer X...guilty as charged your honor."

Later, during a press interview the foreman is asked why the jury didn't believe the stove dealer's arguments in court. He says: " While we found his explanations very creative & amusing, they were just not credible. We especially loved this part: ..."The customer couldn't make up their minds about the door so we delivered the stove to make room for more stock."

The foreman adds:,.."The fact that the dependent's lawyer was able to make that argument & keep a straight face, was most impressive!"
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

Visit Hitzer Stoves

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traderfjp
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Post Sat. Sep. 13, 2008 11:04 am

I knew you couldn't resist. Ok. When your daughter gets the bill for the lawyer she bans you from Sunday dinner. :)
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in any coal or plumbing related field. I only post my own experiences, research and common sense. If you choose to use any of the information in this post or any other post you do so at your own risk.

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coaledsweat
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Post Sat. Sep. 13, 2008 3:33 pm

Devil505 wrote:"The fact that the dependent's lawyer was able to make that argument & keep a straight face, was most impressive!"


Are you still writing her off as a dependent? If so, your going to need a lawyer. :D
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

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Devil505
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Post Sat. Sep. 13, 2008 9:35 pm

coaledsweat wrote:Are you still writing her off as a dependent? If so, your going to need a lawyer. :D


Nope.She's 35 years old, married & files a joint return with her husband....but thanks for asking! :)
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

Jimbo47
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Stove/Furnace Make: TLC 2000
Stove/Furnace Model: Harman
Location: Wayne NY

Post Mon. Sep. 15, 2008 8:21 pm

We ordered a TLC-2000 back in June and it is due to be shipped 10/3, but thats ok the addition isnt finished yet to put it in. Our dealer put the price on the flyer $1660 black door, $1825 Gold door we went with the black door, I know if it comes with no door my wife will be on the phone with thw Atty General. I don't know if you have one there but they can sometimes help out also the Better Busines Bureau.

Jim

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Devil505
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Post Mon. Sep. 15, 2008 8:31 pm

Jimbo47 wrote:Our dealer put the price on the flyer $1660 black door, $1825 Gold door we went with the black door, I know if it comes with no door my wife will be on the phone with thw Atty General.


I don't think any dealer would be dumb enough to put "Black Door" on your sales slip & then not give you any door. That won't happen.....but if it does...consider it a gift! :) (Refute the CC charge, run out & buy a door somewhere &.....You have a brand new TLC2000 for $180.00!! Congrats! :lol: :devil:
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

Visit Hitzer Stoves

TimV
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Older Ashley Cabinet ( pre US Stove gobble up)
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Energy King 480 EK
Coal Size/Type: Warm weather smaller coal. Cold weather larger coal.
Other Heating: Oil Furnace Backup when repairs are needed
Stove/Furnace Make: Energy King Furnace
Stove/Furnace Model: 480 EK
Location: Glens Falls NY Area

Post Sat. Oct. 11, 2008 8:26 am

After reading a few of the posts I am wondering is harmon(thru its dealers) trying to put itself out of business? Sending a unit without a door because you wanted a optional color is foolish if price includes a door. Its yours you paid for it.
Sounds a little like selling me a car at a great price then telling me the keys cost an extra $1500.00 :mad:

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Devil505
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Post Sat. Oct. 11, 2008 8:30 am

TimV wrote:After reading a few of the posts I am wondering is harmon(thru its dealers) trying to put itself out of business?


I don't think so. This was just one Harman dealer who I would label as unscrupulous based on my daughter's dealings with them.
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

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rovatune
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Post Sun. Oct. 12, 2008 10:22 pm

Another door related story - but a good one.

After 30 years of heating with wood, I finally called it quits Friday and bought a new Hitzer 354. I really wanted one with a gold door but with what I've read, I guess I was lucky to find one.

The dealer said I could order a gold door for the option cost of $268 plus shipping. When I got home I called Hitzer and asked if I could exchange the black door for a gold one. They said no problem, charged my card for $168 and said it would ship out that day.

I think I'm going to like this company.

Larry

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Richard S.
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Post Fri. Oct. 31, 2008 10:26 pm

Please start a new topics.

Chimney posts moved here: Devils Chimney Build
Barometric posts moved here: Adjusting Harman TLC
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

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