Daughter Ripped Off?

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
User avatar
SemperFi
Member
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun. Aug. 17, 2008 8:36 am
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: H.F. hopper 90k btu
Location: Western N.Y.

Post Wed. Sep. 10, 2008 11:57 am

It sounds like Harman needs to certify and educate there dealers on proper representation of the fine Harman product and name. If not im sure the rest of the industry will be more than happy to take there customer following. All said and done I bet you daughter will be pleased with her new stove as most can not obtain one at this time. Good luck to her and chill out bud.
If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you may have misjudged the situation.

Visit Hitzer Stoves

User avatar
Devil505
Member
Posts: 7110
Joined: Tue. Jul. 03, 2007 10:44 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000
Location: SE Massachusetts

Post Wed. Sep. 10, 2008 7:44 pm

Epilogue:

My daughter drove up to Dartmouth & picked up the door. They didn't even have the courtesy of installing the glass in it for her.

Yup...They are sleezeballs!
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

User avatar
traderfjp
Member
Posts: 1800
Joined: Wed. Apr. 19, 2006 10:32 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3
Location: New York

Post Wed. Sep. 10, 2008 7:54 pm

I bet they change their policy because of all this. If not then they are total idiots. The way the market is for stoves they don't have to pull fast ones to get top dollar. U know I can't resist.
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in any coal or plumbing related field. I only post my own experiences, research and common sense. If you choose to use any of the information in this post or any other post you do so at your own risk.

User avatar
Mantis
Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue. Jul. 22, 2008 11:11 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC2000
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut/Private mine IDK
Location: Corning, NY

Post Thu. Sep. 11, 2008 7:14 pm

:devil: I bought a 1600.00 door and it came with a little TLC.

I think everything that could be said has been said but would like to add, sounds like you did a good job teaching your daughter to take *censored* from no one. Cudos to you and glad everything worked out.
Last edited by Mantis on Thu. Sep. 11, 2008 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If you are neurotic and need something to play with, you get a hand fired." ~
: coaledsweat
Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:54 pm

User avatar
Devil505
Member
Posts: 7110
Joined: Tue. Jul. 03, 2007 10:44 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000
Location: SE Massachusetts

Post Thu. Sep. 11, 2008 7:20 pm

Mantis wrote:think everything that could be said has been said but would like to add, sounds like you did a good job teaching your daughter to take *censored* from know one. Cudos to you and glad everything worked out.
Thanks Manits. :cheers:
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

User avatar
Steve.N
Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu. Feb. 21, 2008 3:26 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman mkII
Stove/Furnace Model: Axeman Anderson 260 at store
Location: Crown Point, NY East side of the state about 130 miles above Albany

Post Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 9:07 am

Most know that I am a Harman dealer, Harman changed how they list the stove prices from last year and I agree that the new way is idiotic. Fancy doors were always an upgrade, now all doors have to be included in the price of the stove. The Price list issued in January clearly stated that doors were separate, when Harman increased their prices in August they reissued a retail price list but neglected to note that the doors needed to be added to the price of the stove. In fact the door listing is not even on the pages with the stove body listing but listed separate with accesories and parts. It is easy to see how a dealer can become confused and I am glad that he made it right

Elite coal stove, Mark 1,II and III, Magum Stoker, DVC-500 and F-200 wood Insert, doors are priced separate.
The VF-3000 coal stoker is priced with the feeder and hopper separate
SF-2600 triple fuel is priced with filter box blower and oil burner separate
SF 160, 260 and 360 controls are separate
SF 1500, 2500 and 3500 the blower is separate.
Life without oil heat is sweet !

User avatar
gambler
Member
Posts: 1594
Joined: Mon. Jan. 29, 2007 12:02 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer
Location: western Pa

Post Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 9:20 am

Steve.N wrote:Elite coal stove, Mark 1,II and III, Magum Stoker, DVC-500 and F-200 wood Insert, doors are priced separate.
The VF-3000 coal stoker is priced with the feeder and hopper separate
SF-2600 triple fuel is priced with filter box blower and oil burner separate
SF 160, 260 and 360 controls are separate
SF 1500, 2500 and 3500 the blower is separate.
Boy that sounds like a boat load of *censored* to me.
Order a VF-3000 coal stoker and the feeder and hopper are separate?
What the hell is a stoker boiler without a stoker or hopper.
And a stove without a door?
I think with practices like this Harman will be dead. The only way is for the dealer to not tell the customer that these items are extra and calculate the price including the extras. If I went to buy a VF-3000 and the dealer told me the stoker and the hopper were extra I would turn and walk away.
Take Care and God Bless
Rick

User avatar
Devil505
Member
Posts: 7110
Joined: Tue. Jul. 03, 2007 10:44 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000
Location: SE Massachusetts

Post Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 9:21 am

Steve.N wrote:It is easy to see how a dealer can become confused and I am glad that he made it right
Personal Opinion:

This store has been around for many years & should know how to price a stove. I think the word "Confused" should be replaced with the word "Opportunistic" & then I could accept your point. :devil:
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

Visit Hitzer Stoves

User avatar
Steve.N
Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu. Feb. 21, 2008 3:26 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman mkII
Stove/Furnace Model: Axeman Anderson 260 at store
Location: Crown Point, NY East side of the state about 130 miles above Albany

Post Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 12:47 pm

I can kind of agree with you on that fact Devil, All of the dealers were made aware of the new pricing format this spring. I made up new price lists that included all of the needed components so my employees couldn't make this kind of mistake. I too would have supplied the door at my cost if one of my people had made this mistake, I would have delivered and installed it though. Its too bad that an established business could let this happen
Life without oil heat is sweet !

User avatar
Devil505
Member
Posts: 7110
Joined: Tue. Jul. 03, 2007 10:44 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000
Location: SE Massachusetts

Post Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 12:53 pm

Steve.N wrote:I too would have supplied the door at my cost if one of my people had made this mistake, I would have delivered and installed it though. Its too bad that an established business could let this happen
Are you saying that you would take $1600.00 (or whatever your TLC price is) from a customer who your employees had failed to mention that it came with no door at that price, & then delver a stove with no door whatsoever? (& then, when they complain, you would charge them your cost for a door?)

Edit: If I was a Harman dealer, I can't imagine a scenario in which I would allow my employees to deliver a "stove body" to any customer unless that customer requested just a stove body, in writing!
Last edited by Devil505 on Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

sharkman8810
Member
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed. Mar. 05, 2008 7:27 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 82 ul
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 82 u.l.
Location: south central pa

Post Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 2:22 pm

devil505

the way I read his response is that he not only would have given the customer the door, but also delivered the door and install it for them.

User avatar
beatle78
Member
Posts: 1026
Joined: Wed. Oct. 03, 2007 1:46 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker KA-4
Location: Rhode Island

Post Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 2:38 pm

guys I see a bigger picture here.

I see Harman being the sleezy people here and the idiot dealers got bit by it.

I would like someone who is a dealer for LL, Keystoker, or Alaska chime in and see how those companies price their stoves/boilers for their dealers.

I always had a sense that Harman was a shady company!

Before I first bought my Magnum I asked a dealer at the local fair if she had a Magnum in stock and she said yes. I asked when I could come down and buy it. She asked where I lived and then responded saying that she will not sell me the stove b/c I am not in her territory.

At first, I dismissed it, and then I realized that Harman has them do that so there is NO competition between dealers. And to be honest, a company who doesn't have a support line for customers and FORCES them to go to the dealers is shady to begin with.

The reason this is unnacceptable is b/c dealers in my area are CLUELESS b\c the demand is so small for coal appliances. We want accurate answers and we want to get them from the company itself.

This was all before this forum existed!

I've talked to both LL and Keystoker before and they answered all my questions.

my 2 cents

User avatar
coalkirk
Member
Posts: 4679
Joined: Wed. May. 17, 2006 8:12 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: anthracite/rice coal
Location: Forest Hill MD

Post Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 8:52 pm

I think some of you are reading way to much into this "new price list" from Harman. I don't think there was anything sleazy going on,just stupid. They obviously did it to "simplfy" their price list in their minds without considering the ramifications of this when it got into use in the field. They weren't plotting to screw customers, they're just dumb as dirt in their methods and marketing.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." —General George S. Patton

Burning rice coal in a 1981 EFM DF520, nut coal in a hand fired Jotul 507.

User avatar
Devil505
Member
Posts: 7110
Joined: Tue. Jul. 03, 2007 10:44 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000
Location: SE Massachusetts

Post Fri. Sep. 12, 2008 9:51 pm

coalkirk wrote:I think some of you are reading way to much into this "new price list" from Harman. I don't think there was anything sleazy going on,
I agree. How Harman charges it's dealers has nothing to do with how these dealers sell to the public. The fact that Harman charges separate prices for it's gold vs black stove doors, to it's dealers has no effect on how they sell to the public. Any dealer would know that a coal stove is utterly useless without a door & would therefore have to include his cost for the door in the sale to a customer. I think it is simply an accounting practice at Harman & that they fully expect all their stoves will be delivered with some type of door included to the customer. (I think what a reputable Harman dealer is figure his cost for a stove & door, charge a price that includes both & then offer a gold door as an optional upgrade for a few hundred more.)
As far as Harman not communicating with buyers, while less convenient for us buyers, I think that it is simply a money saving procedure & has no evil intent.
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

User avatar
Steve.N
Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu. Feb. 21, 2008 3:26 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman mkII
Stove/Furnace Model: Axeman Anderson 260 at store
Location: Crown Point, NY East side of the state about 130 miles above Albany

Post Sat. Sep. 13, 2008 8:26 am

Devil505 wrote:Are you saying that you would take $1600.00 (or whatever your TLC price is) from a customer who your employees had failed to mention that it came with no door at that price, & then delver a stove with no door whatsoever? (& then, when they complain, you would charge them your cost for a door?)
What I am saying is that sometimes your employees make honest mistakes that are beyond your control. I as the business owner take responcibility for what they do and go out of my way to make it right. The retail price of the black TLC2000 stove without door is $1605.00 the door adds $188.00 for a total retail of $1793. In that the retailer supplied the door at no cost and refunded half the Sat delivery charge she got a very good price on the stove at the expense of the retailer.

Edit, If the stove was delivered in an unopened box the delivery guys would have been unaware of the lack of the door
Life without oil heat is sweet !

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Post Reply

Return to “Hand Fired Coal Stoves & Furnaces Using Anthracite”