Daughter Ripped Off?

Modern and vintage hand fired coal stove are similar to a wood stove and in some cases can burn either. They need to be regulated and fed by hand usually every 12 to 24 hours depending on your usage. They require no power to operate making them ideal for rural settings with long power outages.
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Devil505
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Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000
Location: SE Massachusetts

Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 9:51 pm

SAU wrote:I think the first option should be to call Harman directly then go to option #1. If you don't try to rectify the situation through the dealer the credit card company will frown.

I don't think Harman will be very happy with the dealer.


I don't think Harman will even talk to or respond to customer directly.
If her credit card company balks at refusing to pay the stove dealer.......Then just cut up the credit card & refuse to pay the charge! ( but first, run out to Best Buy & buy a large screen, LCD TV)...... Let a judge decide the case........In 10 years!
Last edited by Devil505 on Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
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CoalHeat
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 9:54 pm

I don't think Harman will be very happy with the dealer.


I don't think you will hear a word from Harman about it, based on everything else I've heard and read about them.
Heating a circa 1832 farmhouse with a Harman Magnafire Mark I & a 1959 EFM 350 (heating DHW).
100% Oil Free!
"It's what we learn after we think we know it all that counts."

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Devil505
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Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 9:55 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:When I bought the Mark I the only question was whether I wanted the brass trim/brass door or all black. It was never indicated that the door itself was an option. Who would buy a stove without a door on it? "No, I don't need the door, I already have one!". The brochure for the Mark series stoves indicates the black door as being standard and the brass door is an option. Unfortunately, the TLC brochure makes no such mention.

I find it hard to believe they showed up with a stove with no door on it!

Does it have a door for the ash pan area, or is that an "option" as well?

I say "Give 'em hell", Devil.


No top door at all John!! (I checked thoroughly & all the other parts are there, including the owners manual)
I plan on giving them hell........That's where I live!! :) :devil:
Last edited by Devil505 on Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 10:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

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coalkirk
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Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 9:58 pm

Isn't there a local TV station with a consumer reporter? There's one here and she is a pit bull that scares the crap out of anyone she goes up against. I'd call your local TV consumer reporter with this one. I'd also like to see the receipt for the stove. No one would buy a stove without the door. It would be obvious this was the dealers oversight and fault. She should document what hapened, that she bought a stove which she had every right to assume came with a freakin door. Show that she tried to work it out with the dealer. If she disptes the charge, by law, the charge is held and the dealer does not get his money. He gets to tell his side. It's not going to look to good if he sold her and delievered her a stove with out a damn door and then tried to sell her one later for more money. Someone at the store screwed up and they should take the hit.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." —General George S. Patton

Burning rice coal in a 1981 EFM DF520, nut coal in a hand fired Jotul 507.

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Devil505
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Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 9:58 pm

I just had a great idea that I would do, but my daughter is a tad more honest than her father!

I would dispute the full credit card bill of $1600.00, but then mail the stove dealer a check for $2.98!

(why $2.98 you may ask?..........That's the price of a "paper-weight" which is the only use for the item that they delivered last Saturday! :devil:)

I would notate the $2.98 check with the words: "Full payment for delivered paper-weight replica of a Harman TLC2000"
Last edited by Devil505 on Tue. Sep. 09, 2008 9:54 am, edited 4 times in total.
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

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CoalHeat
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Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 10:03 pm

This is crazy.
Heating a circa 1832 farmhouse with a Harman Magnafire Mark I & a 1959 EFM 350 (heating DHW).
100% Oil Free!
"It's what we learn after we think we know it all that counts."

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coalkirk
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Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 10:16 pm

Hey Devil, is this Harman dealer on State Street? Maybe we should all call them on Tuesday and see if we can buy one of those neato coal stoves that don't need a door to work.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." —General George S. Patton

Burning rice coal in a 1981 EFM DF520, nut coal in a hand fired Jotul 507.

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coalkirk
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Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 10:29 pm

And with the industry’s largest glass door for easy viewing and air wash glass-cleaning system and an optional air grill, the TLC 2000 is the only stove you’ll ever need.
The above is a sentance from the Harman website about the stove, To the left is link for options, guess whats not there? Any mention of the door. I think you've got them by the short and curlys. I'd call the credit card company and dispute the charge for sure.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." —General George S. Patton

Burning rice coal in a 1981 EFM DF520, nut coal in a hand fired Jotul 507.

Visit Hitzer Stoves

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Devil505
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Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 10:31 pm

coalkirk wrote:Hey Devil, is this Harman dealer on State Street? Maybe we should all call them on Tuesday and see if we can buy one of those neato coal stoves that don't need a door to work.


It;'s late & my brain is almost shut down for the night...........State Street??..Don't get it?? :?
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

CapeCoaler
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Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 11:07 pm

Dispute the charge with the credit card company...
And refuse to pay....
As a consumer you can string this out a very long time....
Trust me...
From both the business and consumer side....
Send an e-mail to Harman...
CC the BBB, the local news station - you know the consumer section Hank etc, the local dealer and a link to this thread....
This will make a great story poor hardworking getting ripped off by the bad business people during the rush to save some money...
Hey this is where being a leftist ain't so bad...
Oh yea post their name....
Want to see 'Market Forces' at work... :D
Had to balance the comments...
Just let it hit the web and the consumer reporter on a local news station.
It also will fall under the bait and switch part of MA law 8-)
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=ocaterminal ... &csid=Eoca
If the stoves were displayed with doors...
Get some pictures before you do anything...
You will get thrown out of the store but get the pics with a digital camera, date and time...
But let them know many will hear about this....
Take some meds so you can be semi-civil...
Those right-wing commie bastards... :mad:
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.

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Richard S.
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Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 11:15 pm

This came up before and I'd imagine it's the dealer not realizing the door is "optional". If you're a dealer in this situation you would m add the price of the cheapest door to the sale price and offer the upgrades as options. Having said that the dealer should have been aware of this and I think it's given that the consumer could expect to get a door with a stove. Obviously if they were window shopping they were shown stoves with doors... :roll:
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

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jeromemsn
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Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 11:21 pm

Dang I sure hope Chevy, Ford, Chrysler and the others don't get wind of Harman's trick. I guess two door cars would make a quick comeback. Sheeesh :o
The warmest people I know burn Coal! ©

BIG BEAM
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Post Mon. Sep. 08, 2008 11:37 pm

I once bought a new ford f 150 in 1977 that came with a spare rim ,but no tire. :?
DON

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jeromemsn
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Post Tue. Sep. 09, 2008 1:19 am

:D :D :D :D
The warmest people I know burn Coal! ©

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Freddy
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Post Tue. Sep. 09, 2008 3:39 am

Harmon will not speak to a consumer.

I'd get the door in hand so you can use the darn thing, then call the credit card compnay and dispute it. Then I'd call the stove place and suggest if they refund the price of the door you will drop the dispute. They will not lose money on the deal and it should teach them to change policy.

I trust other states have similar laws as Maine. This is a partial quote taken from the state website. Note "C".

Implied warranty of merchantability

(1). Except in a finance lease, a warranty that the goods will be merchantable is implied in a lease contract if the lessor is a merchant with respect to goods of that kind.
(2). Goods to be merchantable must at least:
(a). Pass without objection in the trade under the description in the lease agreement; [1991, c. 805, §4 (NEW).]
(b). In the case of fungible goods, be of fair average quality within the description; [1991, c. 805, §4 (NEW).]
(c). Be fit for the ordinary purposes for which goods of that type are used.


A stove without a door is not fit for the ordinary purpose for which it is used.
Orrington, Maine
Fred

"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all".

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