Are we going to heat with coal???

 
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davidmcbeth3
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Tue. May. 30, 2023 5:34 pm

nut wrote:
Tue. May. 30, 2023 8:56 am
3 tons coming Saturday from Isaac. Going to give Sherman a try this year.
Good man. Still waiting lower prices..around here the retailers don't update the price until about July...hoping for lowering. Likely still gonna burn coal like last 12 or so years.


 
Soniya87
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Post by Soniya87 » Thu. Jun. 08, 2023 5:13 am

Hi Guys,youtube vanced
It is highly recommended that we move away from heating with coal due to its significant environmental impact. Coal combustion releases large amounts of carbon dioxide, contributing to climate change and air pollution. Transitioning to cleaner and more sustainable alternatives, such as renewable energy sources like solar or wind power, is crucial for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and improving air quality. Investing in clean technologies and embracing energy-efficient solutions can create a healthier and more sustainable future for our planet and future generations.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Thu. Jun. 08, 2023 8:05 am

S, you do realize that all that is BS. PS--mornin. :)

 
waytomany?s
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Post by waytomany?s » Thu. Jun. 08, 2023 10:26 am

Soniya87 wrote:
Thu. Jun. 08, 2023 5:13 am
Hi Guys,youtube vanced
It is highly recommended that we move away from heating with coal due to its significant environmental impact. Coal combustion releases large amounts of carbon dioxide, contributing to climate change and air pollution. Transitioning to cleaner and more sustainable alternatives, such as renewable energy sources like solar or wind power, is crucial for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and improving air quality. Investing in clean technologies and embracing energy-efficient solutions can create a healthier and more sustainable future for our planet and future generations.
Wind and air are not "clean" by a long shot. windmills and solar panels cannot currently be recycled. In the case of solar panels, they are considered hazardous waste. I'm all for clean and safe, but there is not a current form of alternative energy that fits the bill other than possibly hydropower.

 
k-2
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Post by k-2 » Thu. Jun. 08, 2023 12:23 pm

Soniya87 wrote:
Thu. Jun. 08, 2023 5:13 am
Hi Guys,youtube vanced
It is highly recommended that we move away from heating with coal due to its significant environmental impact.
Were already doing that with out any help. But better keep it around for awhile as a peak load and backup energy source or we get caught with our pants down again like last winter. Price of coal has gone way up ,someone thinks its valuable.

 
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Retro_Origin
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Post by Retro_Origin » Thu. Jun. 08, 2023 6:14 pm

Soniya87 wrote:
Thu. Jun. 08, 2023 5:13 am
Hi Guys,youtube vanced
It is highly recommended that we move away from heating with coal due to its significant environmental impact. Coal combustion releases large amounts of carbon dioxide, contributing to climate change and air pollution. Transitioning to cleaner and more sustainable alternatives, such as renewable energy sources like solar or wind power, is crucial for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and improving air quality. Investing in clean technologies and embracing energy-efficient solutions can create a healthier and more sustainable future for our planet and future generations.
Carbon dioxide is plant food, so we are very concerned about the environment and doing our best to fill it with things that make life grow and flourish. We are actively offering alternative to bird guillotines mounted on hillsides and ground mirrors which blind and daze other flying creatures. We also do not condone geothermal cooling which puts heat from a dwelling into the ground- and hence creating the most direct and dangerous form of global warming.

Thanks for your concern and may you burn anthracite coal until you croke

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Thu. Jun. 08, 2023 10:31 pm

she be a bot. But dont worry she'll be back...


 
k-2
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Post by k-2 » Fri. Jun. 09, 2023 10:50 am

Well this is the first time iv ever fired up in MID-JUNE. A warm day here and there but these nights in the 40s are making the house too cold. A little smoke from a Canadian fire to block the sun and the overnight temps plunge.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Sun. Jun. 11, 2023 1:05 pm

Soniya87 wrote:
Thu. Jun. 08, 2023 5:13 am
Hi Guys,youtube vanced
It is highly recommended that we move away from heating with coal due to its significant environmental impact. Coal combustion releases large amounts of carbon dioxide, contributing to climate change and air pollution. Transitioning to cleaner and more sustainable alternatives, such as renewable energy sources like solar or wind power, is crucial for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and improving air quality. Investing in clean technologies and embracing energy-efficient solutions can create a healthier and more sustainable future for our planet and future generations.
Solar is not renewable. It takes coal to build solar panels AND renew them (build new ones). No coal…no solar.
Last edited by Hoytman on Sun. Jun. 11, 2023 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Sun. Jun. 11, 2023 1:08 pm

Retro_Origin wrote:
Thu. Jun. 08, 2023 6:14 pm
Carbon dioxide is plant food, so we are very concerned about the environment and doing our best to fill it with things that make life grow and flourish. We are actively offering alternative to bird guillotines mounted on hillsides and ground mirrors which blind and daze other flying creatures. We also do not condone geothermal cooling which puts heat from a dwelling into the ground- and hence creating the most direct and dangerous form of global warming.

Thanks for your concern and may you burn anthracite coal until you croke
:lol: :lol: :clap: :yes:

 
nut
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Post by nut » Mon. Jun. 12, 2023 8:35 am

Coal is renewable, just takes longer.

 
k-2
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Post by k-2 » Mon. Jun. 12, 2023 2:07 pm

nut wrote:
Mon. Jun. 12, 2023 8:35 am
Coal is renewable, just takes longer.
Gas can be made quite quickly. All you need is an enclosed landfill. Another fast source is manure pits.

 
homopratensis
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Post by homopratensis » Tue. Jun. 13, 2023 2:11 pm

I don't know what people are talking about with coal being "expensive." It's $200/ton from Sherman Mountain. For those living in Eastern Pennsylvania this is a bargain. About half the cost in coal is all the other stuff...Lehigh wants $400/ton bagged right now and add to that the cost of shipping, going prices around me are $430 ton you pick up. But that is $50/ton for plastic bags, about $100-150/ton for the costs associated with Leigh and the other big suppliers needing to comply with Tier4, their advertising budgets, etc. There IS a war on coal as the bot lady (who is clueless about chemistry) has shown. That war is being fought by making the cost of bulk material handling go way up it seems. They want everyone to use "grid" fuels dependent on pipelines, electric lines, etc. that THEY CAN TURN OFF. They do not like a multitude of folks independently contracting independent owner operators of trucks stockpiling the still cheap and basically inert fuels like coal. Right now one can buy a truckload of coal (about 25 tons) for less than the COST OF A HEAT PUMP. This could last 8-10 years depending upon climate/insulation. Used coal stoves are on Craigslist for hundreds of dollars usually.

The reason why you are hearing all these good things about heat pumps is because it's PROPAGANDA. The coal industry has never been that good with propaganda (compared to fashion, pharma, oil, "green" industries). With smart meters THEY control what your heat pump does. Also, those things wear out. My in-laws got the state-of-the art heat pump around 2010 and it was replaced in 2021. Its efficiency declined with every year of use to the point it barely worked (this is probably due to leaking refrigerant). When they looked into servicing it they were told basically they are replaced after a decade. The unit cost $14k in 2010. That doesn't include the cost of fuel! My father in law fired up his old Danish Tarm multifuel boiler and he bought some coal!

Wood, as far as I'm concerned, is a primarily construction material, not a fuel. Only the hard to use bits should be burned, IMO. The rest should be homes, furniture, etc. Guys who cut their own trees and call it "free" are forgetting the fact that a good diameter hardwood tree is worth THOUSANDS of dollars in lumber. But see this justifies the 4x4 tractor/UTV/Pickup truck to skid it out, chainsaws, and hydraulic wood splitter toys to play with. They can justify it to their wives by saying they are SAVING MONEY! Lets add it up:

25 tons of Anthracite costs $7000 to be trucked into Southern Indiana woodlands. A wheelbarrow and shovel and maybe a 5 gallon bucket are what you need in addition to a property set up stove/furnace/boiler. I have a Chubby so that's where I'm coming from in terms of efficiency and burn times and heating capacity.


This is equivalent lets say to 30-35 cords of hardwood depending upon species, seasoning quality, storage quality.
Let's assume this is "FREE WOOD" cut from your own property you pay taxes on. Where I live that's about $100/year per acre for non-tillable woodland. Hardwoods grow at about 1 cord/acre-year here. This means you'd need about 30-35 acres to not deplete the woodland. Then again you could clear-cut a couple acres and generate that much wood and turn it into a pasture or something.

So what will you need, in addition to buying that land which is about $5000-8000/acre?

Lets say you can get a little used 25hp 4x4 loader-tractor the minimum to skid out of this hilly, no tillable landscape. That's 10k right there. Factor in about $1000 for a couple of chainsaws, extra chains, sharpening stuff, safety gear, chains, log-handling equipment.

Woodshed to hold this much wood. What $5-10k? Or go cheap and buy a couple hundred dollars of tarps and t-posts and turn your property into a giant vole infested decaying woodpile!
Oh and the time. How many hours will be spent doing this. Like every Saturday from November-March for the rest of your life. Provided the ground is solid enough you wont sink?

Now factor in your wood-stove or wood boiler or whatever? Costs at least as much or more than coal burning equivalents.

The wood I burn is end cuts of kiln dried red oak and tulip poplar, used for making pallets. I used to get them for free, now they are about $90/cord. What's great about these is they easily fit into small fireboxes of coal stoves. Great for staring a coal fire.This I feel is a good value, certainly a better value than "FREE WOOD" cut from my own property.

The problem with wood is it just doesn't burn very long. Certainly not 8 hours. A cord of kiln-dried red oak seems about equal to 1000 lbs of coal. So coal costs about the same, it just wont go all night, and that's where anthracite comes in.

I don't get this stuff about coal being somehow worse for the "environment" than other hydrocarbon fuels. HxCx + O2 -> CO2 + H20. It's doesn't really matter what the HxCx is too much: wood, anthracite, heating oil, wood pellets, methane(natural gas), propane are all HxCx...the differences among them are in their handling properties, storage properties, densities, percentage of impurities, and COST! Refined fuels like gasoline, heating oil, wood pellets, propane are clean because they are refined. Those impurities are removed at the refinery. They GO SOMEWHERE. It's not like they disappear magically. Anthracite for home heating is a very clean fuel for being unrefined. It's certainly cleaner than cordwood, unrefined petroleum, peat, and other things used by people for fuel over the centuries. Natural gas is semi-refined but requires a massive infrastructure for distribution that is cost-prohibitive under a certain population density. I should know. A massive 41" interstate gas pipeline runs through my property where 20 feet on each side of it the soil has been degraded but it's "too expensive" for them to install the pluming needed to hook my house up to that pipeline, and it's too high of pressure anyway. And piplined gas is the cheapest gas. LNG is 3x the cost from what I've read.

Anthracite is relatively clean, produced about 10% ash, has relatively fewer emissions than other unrefined fuels, can be simply piled up outdoors and takes up little space (20x40 foot pile is about what a 25ton tuckload occupies) and can be handled with simple human powered tools like wheelbarrows and shovels. Yes, you can shovel about 1 ton of bulk coal in only a few minutes! It moves MUCH faster than cord wood! A bagged ton of coal is even faster. It is relatively cheap to all fuels (including electricity) except natural gas which requires a very expensive infrastructure and high population density.

To me it seems that the only reason why it isn't more popular is because there isn't as much propaganda promoting coal. And that it is appealing to the lazy to do nothing more than adjust a thermostat to warm their homes. Thing is the days are GONE where you are in control of that thermostat. In the future THEY decide where it is set and how much you'll get.

 
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davidmcbeth3
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Tue. Jun. 13, 2023 2:39 pm

homopratensis wrote:
Tue. Jun. 13, 2023 2:11 pm
snip

"There IS a war on coal as the bot lady (who is clueless about chemistry) has shown."
Who is the "bot lady" ?

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Tue. Jun. 13, 2023 4:25 pm

davidmcbeth3 wrote:
Tue. Jun. 13, 2023 2:39 pm
Who is the "bot lady" ?
The one I called that a couple times that runs down coal. Get used to it as there will be more bots and AI posting as time goes on.


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