What am I doing wrong?

 
KozyKingOhio
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Post by KozyKingOhio » Thu. Mar. 09, 2023 8:29 pm

waytomany?s wrote:
Thu. Mar. 09, 2023 8:21 pm
From the pics online, the fire box is one firebrick horizontal on top of a fire brick standing vertical. I bet you could get 6-8 bags in there on startup.
On startup, you mean slowly add coal as full as I can get it? The fuller the better, ok, I got it.


 
KozyKingOhio
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Post by KozyKingOhio » Thu. Mar. 09, 2023 8:32 pm

Retro_Origin wrote:
Thu. Mar. 09, 2023 8:26 pm
also as a helpful piece of data anthracite coal burns nothing like what you might expect, without the right conditions it goes out, as much as wood and paper want to seem to burn coal doesn't. It smothers as quickly as a two year olds excitement and takes about as much to get going as a granny with a broken walker. Patience is key- you have to play the game the way the fire wants to, you can't rush it. If it ain't ready it won't forgive you. Not to scare you but I had a lot of outfires till I figured this out!
Thanks for that, I agree! I'm not giving up, just a little frustrating. It would be nice if it was just $5 a bag I was trying to learn on! :D

 
KozyKingOhio
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Post by KozyKingOhio » Thu. Mar. 09, 2023 8:34 pm

Lightning wrote:
Thu. Mar. 09, 2023 7:50 pm
You should get about 5-6 pounds of ash per 40 pounds of coal.
That is interesting, I would have never thought it would be that much!

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Thu. Mar. 09, 2023 8:35 pm

Have a look at this


 
KozyKingOhio
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Post by KozyKingOhio » Thu. Mar. 09, 2023 8:45 pm

Lightning wrote:
Thu. Mar. 09, 2023 8:35 pm
Have a look at this

Wow! That was hardcore! I do none of that, I'm I suppose to?

 
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Post by Lightning » Thu. Mar. 09, 2023 9:10 pm

Use it to get some ideas for your routine. My routine was very aggressive because of the V shaped fire bed.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Thu. Mar. 09, 2023 10:40 pm

Lee in his “jam”y’s playing his imaginary guitar. I love it! :lol: :lol: :clap: :clap:


 
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davidmcbeth3
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Fri. Mar. 10, 2023 12:31 pm

If you are not getting the expected ash coming out it appears it is an ash removal issue...makes sense fire would die out due to lack of air.

 
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ShawnLiNy
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Post by ShawnLiNy » Fri. Mar. 10, 2023 3:57 pm

You need to shake more aggressively ( perhaps 2-3 shake sessions every 10 min or so during reload ( shake and load every 12 hrs regardless of how much is left in firebox until you’ve finished this season , than you can learn efficiency next season )

 
KozyKingOhio
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Post by KozyKingOhio » Fri. Mar. 10, 2023 6:28 pm

Got it, Shawn and David.....

So I talked to Dan from DS Stove today. He said I was shaking it too much. He said don't shake it for the first 36 hours, then every 12 hours after that. And he said not to poke it if you don't have to, maybe just the edges if need be. And keep it full!

I'll try this for now, any thoughts on this???

 
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Post by KozyKingOhio » Fri. Mar. 10, 2023 6:32 pm

And for anyone with a Kozy King, he said the opening on the shield/cover on the little draft motor should only be open 1/2".
And other than start-up, the bottom door spinner/vent should be closed. As long as you have good draft, all the air it needs to keep it burning comes through the 1/2" opening.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Sat. Mar. 11, 2023 10:42 am

I can tell you this about trying to run too low and too slow…if tha is something you end up trying to do.


If you try to run low and slow…and I mean way too low and slow…if you shake it you will kill it…and in those rare occasions that you don’t kill it giving it too much air can kill it. How?

If you open the draft fully and then open the bottom air fully…sometimes you can be running so low that cool air rushed in and kills what is left of your fire. I’m talking about trying to run your stove at absolute bare minimum.

You need heat to build more fire…
So by closing the draft to almost full closed you’re helping heat to stay longer in the stove rather than go up the chimney.

I’v noticed with my stove that if the stove temperature is around 160-170ish that I have to open bottom air fully while keeping the draft full closed. It seems to build heat faster this way…and I’m sure asking 15-20 minutes versus having to leave everything open for well over an hour.

So with bottom air full open and draft 3/4 closed (which is full closed in my stove because it will not close fully) my stove will build heat faster. Once it gets to about 225-250 I can open the draft fully and it will begin to draft even harder and heat up even faster at this point.

Once my stoves temperature gets down around 160-170 I have actually killed the fire by opening everything fully. It doesn’t always kill it, but when it doesn’t kill it I found that with everything full open it may take the stove 2+ hours to come back to cruise temperature…and I’m just not going to babysit a stove that long. I did that several times when trying to learn my stove having stayed up half the night.

A paper clip helped this situation greatly for me since my ash pan door does NOT have any vents. The paper clip allows for a small amount of constant air keeping my fire more lively. I use it a lot during warmer temps and remove it when temps are colder because the bi-metallic seems to be able to run the stove fine by itself when it is colder and it uses less fuel this way as well, believe it or not.

I realize the above may seem contrary to what some say and what their experiences have been, but the above has been my experience with my stove in my chimney in my home. I’m tried leaving things full open running far too low and results weren’t the best. Then again, most people aren’t trying to run a stove that is far too big for their house like I am doing either. That’s why I said above trying to run your stove “way too low and slow”. You reach a point of no return…and I’ve learned to ride that fine line very carefully over the last 4 years. I believe I’ve finally dialed it in with the help of a simple paper clip…but even then I discovered times to leave the paper clip in place and times to remove it.

Not sure if your KozyKing has a bi-metallic or not, but I thought I’d throw that out there for you to think about…and some of the information doesn’t care whether or not you have a bi-metallic or not, it could help you jus the same when running low and slow…or trying to revive a dying fire.

 
KozyKingOhio
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Post by KozyKingOhio » Sat. Mar. 11, 2023 12:28 pm

Hoytman wrote:
Sat. Mar. 11, 2023 10:42 am
I can tell you this about trying to run too low and too slow…if tha is something you end up trying to do.


If you try to run low and slow…and I mean way too low and slow…if you shake it you will kill it…and in those rare occasions that you don’t kill it giving it too much air can kill it. How?

If you open the draft fully and then open the bottom air fully…sometimes you can be running so low that cool air rushed in and kills what is left of your fire. I’m talking about trying to run your stove at absolute bare minimum.

You need heat to build more fire…
So by closing the draft to almost full closed you’re helping heat to stay longer in the stove rather than go up the chimney.

I’v noticed with my stove that if the stove temperature is around 160-170ish that I have to open bottom air fully while keeping the draft full closed. It seems to build heat faster this way…and I’m sure asking 15-20 minutes versus having to leave everything open for well over an hour.

So with bottom air full open and draft 3/4 closed (which is full closed in my stove because it will not close fully) my stove will build heat faster. Once it gets to about 225-250 I can open the draft fully and it will begin to draft even harder and heat up even faster at this point.

Once my stoves temperature gets down around 160-170 I have actually killed the fire by opening everything fully. It doesn’t always kill it, but when it doesn’t kill it I found that with everything full open it may take the stove 2+ hours to come back to cruise temperature…and I’m just not going to babysit a stove that long. I did that several times when trying to learn my stove having stayed up half the night.

A paper clip helped this situation greatly for me since my ash pan door does NOT have any vents. The paper clip allows for a small amount of constant air keeping my fire more lively. I use it a lot during warmer temps and remove it when temps are colder because the bi-metallic seems to be able to run the stove fine by itself when it is colder and it uses less fuel this way as well, believe it or not.

I realize the above may seem contrary to what some say and what their experiences have been, but the above has been my experience with my stove in my chimney in my home. I’m tried leaving things full open running far too low and results weren’t the best. Then again, most people aren’t trying to run a stove that is far too big for their house like I am doing either. That’s why I said above trying to run your stove “way too low and slow”. You reach a point of no return…and I’ve learned to ride that fine line very carefully over the last 4 years. I believe I’ve finally dialed it in with the help of a simple paper clip…but even then I discovered times to leave the paper clip in place and times to remove it.

Not sure if your KozyKing has a bi-metallic or not, but I thought I’d throw that out there for you to think about…and some of the information doesn’t care whether or not you have a bi-metallic or not, it could help you jus the same when running low and slow…or trying to revive a dying fire.
Thanks, Bill
I really appreciate all of what you said. I can't believe how hard this is........I'll keep trying!

 
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davidmcbeth3
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Sat. Mar. 11, 2023 12:36 pm

KozyKingOhio wrote:
Fri. Mar. 10, 2023 6:28 pm
Got it, Shawn and David.....

So I talked to Dan from DS Stove today. He said I was shaking it too much. He said don't shake it for the first 36 hours, then every 12 hours after that. And he said not to poke it if you don't have to, maybe just the edges if need be. And keep it full!

I'll try this for now, any thoughts on this???
Hoytman discusses running a stove at idle & how one can accidentally cool down the firebox to the point where the coal gets to cold to burn. I would add that dumping excessive coal into a boarderline environment can also be a factor. So, if running at idle, considerations must be made. Remember, solids don't burn...vapors do, so you have to have the coal at a temp. to produce those flammable vapors.

Keep it full is a good recommendation. One can "overshake" = shaking to point where hot coals are lost, lowering temp in firebox. I don't think one can "shake too frequently" if one simply removes only ash from the system and no hot coals. When my 503 is at idle, I don't need to shake until 24 hrs but if I do , say at 4 hrs, its only a single shake and than its done.

When at idle with my 503, I can put my bare hand on top of the stove and hold it there w/o issue. I am careful to monitor it at idle..I have run into after shaking and adding coal I did indeed lower the firebox temp to where it would naturally die out if no immediate action is taken. Action can include opening the ash door fully and the dampener plate fully to needing to put my hot air gun into the ash pan area and blowing hot air into the stove for 15-30 min. to save the stove from going out. Needed to do the hot air gun only twice due to lack of monitoring the idling stove as closely as needed.

Dan's advice is solid advice overall I think...keep that firebox temp up to min. needed to insure combustion is a must too.

 
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Post by Lightning » Sat. Mar. 11, 2023 12:43 pm

It shouldn't be that hard.. try this procedure every 12 hours.

1) open the ash door to rev up the fire
2) shake ashes until you see red embers falling
3) fill back up to the top of the fire bricks with fresh coal
4) add secondary air or prop load door open 1/8 inch to prevent puffback
5) leave ash door open till the fresh coal ignites
6) close both doors, set primary combustion air, and done..

You should stay with the stove while the ash door is open or set an alarm to remind yourself. If this doesn't work then there could be other problems like a stalling draft..


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