Hitzer 354: Running on a paper clip

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Thu. Jan. 05, 2023 2:01 pm

Ok…the first time I tried using a paper clip on the bi-metallic air intake flap my paper clip was too big. Decided I’d try it at another time and then completely forgot about it.

So the stove had been running on my last bag of pea and had nearly run out after a 24 hr burn with no tending. So I grabbed a bag of nut and loaded the hod and went back inside.

Last night It had installed two of the smallest paper clips I could find and the placed one on each side of the flap near the bottom corners of the air intake flap. The stove still had some glowing coals across the front but the fuel level was low and ash had built up and IAT was down to 70F.

Gave the fire a few minutes to gain some steam, which there wasn’t much left, but I’m sure it helped some. Threw in about 8 shovels of nut. Stove was wanting to take off and I had to shake again and that helped. By then the IAT had fallen to 68F with the wife taking the dog out a few times. So I set furnace thermostat to IAT 70F and let it cycle one time to bring the temp up quickly in the house. Of course the fan would cycle numerous times during the cooling off period and while I was trying to get this stove up to temp…behind the stat box it had dropped to 145F. I finally got the new nut coal to take off with a slow but steady increase in stove temperature. I never touched the dial…it was set low enough that it likely wouldn’t need to open to keep the house at 72F.
Remember, I had set the furnace to cycle OFF at 70F.

So as the coal took to fire and the stove began to heat up it was running on two of the thinnest paper clips I could find.

Fast forward to now @ 1:45pm this afternoon and OAT is 46F from 31F @7am.

Stove air intake flap has not cycled a single time and fire is very lively with IAT 74F and starting to feel too warm in here…that’s a +4F temperature increase just running on two paper clips…however thick they are.

Since it is getting too warm in here I decided to remove one paper clip to further close one side of the intake flap since the stove is causing a rise in IAT’s. I will now wait until about 11pm and possibly may wait until tomorrow morning to see how far IAT drops over night. I have to dial set to 3, which should keep the house at 74-75, but I may turn the dial to just the point where I know that stat won’t let the stove die. I doubt if it cycles any even with one paper clip. If it is still too hot in here I may have to resort to using “feeler” gauges to measure the current gap and to set a new and lower gap.

Hitzer 354 too big for this 1350sq ft home. Running with these paper clips have shown I can run it lower than previously thought. The magnet may have interfered with the flap cycling causing an erratic cycle sometimes.

So far this is proving to run very well this way and confirms my suspicions and desire to have a vented ash pan door made…which lead to scratching that idea and installing a Hitzer 55 spinner in my ash pan door…which lead me back to the idea I got from this forum, to try the paper clip trick again and see if it helps, in which case using the paper clip to maintain air to the fire would eliminate any notion of having to cut any holes in the ash pan door.

After loading some additional nut “on the hot side” of the load of coal the stove has now been closed up for 1/2 hr and the flap has opened to about 1/4”. Once it reaches temperature…and I’m not going to rush it in any way…I’ll let it slowly climb on its own, then it should close. Should be interesting to see if after it closes to wait and see if it needs to open again to maintain room temperature. Going to turn the dial down once the flap closes and then let it run only with the 1 paper clip on the corner of the intake flap.

We shall see …


 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Thu. Jan. 05, 2023 4:22 pm

Thats how I run my Riteway with coal and my Dad runs his hitzer 55 with wood, using a paper clip. In mild weather (my mild weather is like your present weather) that is the only air mine gets with coal. Long term only issue I had is it moves once in a while. My Dad had his fall off once.

I think a hole drilled in the intake door might be a better fix but I have yet to do that. I would trust a paper clip more than your cursed bimetallic spring :lol: Glad it worked!

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Thu. Jan. 05, 2023 5:32 pm

Yep, drillin 2 holes in the flap door has worked well for years Billy. :)

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Thu. Jan. 05, 2023 5:40 pm

freetown fred wrote:
Thu. Jan. 05, 2023 5:32 pm
Yep, drillin 2 holes in the flap door has worked well for years Billy. :)
Two holes huh? I think I’ll start there. Two 1” holes ought to do it. :lol: :roll:

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Thu. Jan. 05, 2023 5:50 pm

Start small and work your way up. Im betting it will vary from stove to stove like everything else what size hole.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Thu. Jan. 05, 2023 5:52 pm

warminmn wrote:
Thu. Jan. 05, 2023 5:50 pm
Start small and work your way up. Im betting it will vary from stove to stove like everything else what size hole.
Just yanking, Fred’s chain.

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Thu. Jan. 05, 2023 6:40 pm

Hoytman wrote:
Thu. Jan. 05, 2023 5:52 pm
Just yanking, Fred’s chain.
Yep, that I knew!


 
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Post by Sam397 » Thu. Jan. 05, 2023 7:07 pm

Bring me up to speed here guys. I get that the paper clip is keeping some air to the coal when it tries to close. Is the issue that when it closes the magnet holds it and then it kinda pops open when calling for heat causing the flap to close pop open close pop open during a burn and therefore not keeping the stove temp as steady as it could be?

 
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Post by Hoytman » Thu. Jan. 05, 2023 10:22 pm

No…at least not in my case. My stove runs just fine on the stat only, but we’re going to play with the paper clip and see if it will run better since we so often run it so low.

I think I’m the only “active” member who has a solid ash pan door with zero vents in it.

Putting high temperature never-seize on all moving parts of my flap eliminated bouncing and squeaking of the flap. The magnet does allow it to sort of pop open and closed…but it is very slight tension.

 
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Post by zachary193 » Fri. Jan. 06, 2023 1:25 am

Drill and tap with a 10-32 screw . You could basically fine tune it . Each turn would be .03125 and inch (1/32”). Set a paper clip under the flap and touch off . Would be great for wood . Like this any thread per inch would work . Just a matter of howh much you want it to move per turn . 1 divided tpi is what it would move . Ex 1/32 =.03125. Paper clip would never fall off again

 
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Post by oliver power » Sat. Jan. 07, 2023 12:35 am

You want to adjust the idle fire. Kind of like adjusting the idle on an engine. The back dial would be your throttle. I'd start with two 1/4" holes in the flapper plate. You will probably want at least 3 holes. However, if it were me, I'd start with two.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Sat. Jan. 07, 2023 3:03 am

Well, it seems one paper clip is better than two. I mean two clips was too much air and one is still too much but a lot better.

House slowly and steadily increases in temp day or night after tending each time.

Dial is set to 2.5 … which would normally allow the stove fire to completely die. The one paper clip is keeping a corner of the flap open about 1/16” at that bottom corner and the other side is completely closed. In other words, 1 paper clip has it sitting out of square which is fine for what it is. That’s keeping a nice even glow throughout the day with far less cycling of the stat and flap. A steady 220F above the doors in face of stove and 168F taken just underneath the stat box … where Dean at Hitzer says to measure it. I’m pretty sure it would burn just a little lower if I had a set screw in the flap to adjust it like DS stoves.

I’m pretty certain even two 1/4” holes would still be too much. Of course, easy enough to pop rivet a piece of metal near holes to infinitely adjust them.

OAT is 25F and that tiny gap is keeping the house at 72F … that about 15 hours after morning tend. Was 74F in house all day with 2 windows full open…so yes…even with this small gap this stove still throws the heat into this small house.

The house actually stays closer to target temp by allowing the flap to cycle open and fully closed. The issue is the lag time of the bi-metallic spring in conjunction with the magnet holding the flap closed allows the temp to drop too far as the stove begins to ash up and by a 12 hr tend is really low and a 24 hr tend is even lower and harder to rev. I generally stick mostly with 12 tending.

Folks…just playing a little. I’m already asking a lot of this stove to burn so low in this house. Anything I do to lower the burn or to make it more even…is asking for even more trouble, but I’m up to it.

Subjective…but it seems to be using less coal than when running soley with the cycling of the thermostat. It hardly cycles now and my fire keeps a better glow by using the paper clip. No surprise there.

I’m just simply amazed that using the stat alone this stove can go completely black for well over an hour before the stat flap opens and brings it back to life…and I run all the time with the built in stove damper full closed unless I’m trying to liven the fire faster.

There again…for my stove the damper can be full closed and the flap will open wide enough and stay open long enough to bring the fire back most of the time when I’m running above 275F…even some lower. Too low and all bets are off. That is, with the dial set too low…but now with a paper clip the flap hardly needs to open anyway.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Sat. Jan. 07, 2023 3:25 am

When I say I’m revving this stove when running this low in mid 30’s and warmer…I rev until draft is about -.02”, and no more than -.03”. I know that doesn’t seem like enough to many of you, but any higher and it simply throws too much heat into the house. If running with no paper clip, then the flap would be closed for way over an hour once blues ignited. I try mostly to not allow blues…and just get a good red glow up front and generally it runs fine this way and never a single issue with explosions. I will keep damper rod open and spinners about 1/4 turn until I’m satisfied with the red glow up front…usually within 10-30 minutes I close the damper to or fully and spinners will be closed to just barely cracked open.

 
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Post by KingCoal » Sat. Jan. 07, 2023 9:01 am

Good work Bill, I think you are pretty much there at this point
I would go with the 10-32 screw idea in the center of the flap so it stays square with the opening.
You should have infinite adjustment and control of idle at that point in 1/64” or less increments. From there you still have the windowstats for final adjustments
👍

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Sat. Jan. 07, 2023 11:56 am

KingCoal wrote:
Sat. Jan. 07, 2023 9:01 am
Good work Bill, I think you are pretty much there at this point
I would go with the 10-32 screw idea in the center of the flap so it stays square with the opening.
You should have infinite adjustment and control of idle at that point in 1/64” or less increments. From there you still have the windowstats for final adjustments
👍
Yep…that’s what I will do. I think I will order a new flap and drill and tap it, then just swap them out real quick, if I can.


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