Hitzer 354: Running on a paper clip

 
User avatar
nepacoal
Member
Posts: 1696
Joined: Wed. Nov. 21, 2012 7:49 am
Location: Coal Country
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4 / "Kelly" and an EFM 520 at my in-laws
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF-260 - retired
Coal Size/Type: Buck

Post by nepacoal » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 5:20 am

You could probably use a feeler gauge to measure it...

 
Toddburn
Member
Posts: 804
Joined: Wed. Aug. 28, 2019 7:38 pm
Location: Southwest P.A.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983/ Hitzer 55
Coal Size/Type: Nut anthracite/pea
Other Heating: Heat pump/forced air

Post by Toddburn » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 6:48 am

[attachment=0]5806EB45-7070-40F2-A3D7-1060D79BF8FD.jpeg[/attachment Billy, do this. Simple fix.

Attachments


 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14658
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 10:02 am

Help me understand. What exactly is the purpose of the magnet with trying to hold the flapper shut while the thermostat is trying to open it?

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25547
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 10:12 am

Hoytman wrote:
Sat. Jan. 07, 2023 12:27 pm
Yep…I’m a step ahead of you which is why I suggested getting a new plate. A simple and quick swap keeps the fire rolling as is with minimal interference.

However, I’m already anticipating an issue with drilling and tapping such a thin plate. I’m 99.9% sure it won’t be as simple as just drilling and tapping a new identical air flap or plate. Why?

Generally any screw has a leading edge that is beveled and I anticipate that before a thread or two can grab the plate there will be part of the leading edge of the screw sticking through the plate, so it will ever so slightly protrude causing the plate not to lie flat and 100% closed. Of course, I won’t want it full closed anyway, so I’ll kid have to see how far it holds the plate away from the air intake opening.

That said, that might be why DS stoves have a thicker plate…so the user can also have the option to complement the flap lie flat against the air intake opening as well as be able to adjust it.

With such a thin plate already it may just be that I could have a hard time getting the screw to stay in good contact with the plate.

Like I said, I want the plate open some anyway, so 1-2 full threads in should work out and be just fine. If not, and 1-2 threads distance plus the beveled point of the screw proved to keep it open too far, then I might have to think about trying a ever so slightly thicker and aluminum plate. Just have to be careful not to interfere with the sensitivity of the bi-metal spring. My spring seems to be whacky enough as it is. :lol:
Know there is a tool called a "mill file" - sold at every hardware store. It does a very good job of removing those tapered threads and making the end of the screw flush with the plate. :lol:

Paul


 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14658
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 1:12 pm

Lightning wrote:
Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 10:02 am
Help me understand. What exactly is the purpose of the magnet with trying to hold the flapper shut while the thermostat is trying to open it?
Anybody?

 
Hoytman
Member
Posts: 5990
Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 1:21 pm

Lightning wrote:
Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 1:12 pm
Anybody?
Not really sure. I think it helps keep the flap from bouncing some from possible outside mild winds. However, I sometimes feel the magnet causes some bouncing (it can bounce without “tinking” or making noise) as the spring is fighting it some whether it is closing or opening.

I lubricated all pivot points and that eliminated any noise issues, and “helped” the bouncing some as well, but did not eliminate bouncing.

I also think the magnet affects (effects??) the lag time of the opening and closing of the flap and it is my opinion the affect is negative…it adds to the lag time of the flap opening.

I also happen to think the magnet adds to the “lag” time which adds to the temperature “gap” in the cycling of the flap…

…if that makes sense to anyone.

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14658
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 1:47 pm

Hmmm... Seems like a low tension spring would be better suited since a magnet increases its pull the closer it gets quite dramatically.

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14658
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 1:48 pm

So what would happen if the magnet was removed?


 
Hoytman
Member
Posts: 5990
Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Mon. Jan. 09, 2023 1:25 am

Toddburn wrote:
Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 6:48 am
[attachment=0]5806EB45-7070-40F2-A3D7-1060D79BF8FD.jpeg[/attachment Billy, do this. Simple fix.
When I mentioned using “sheet metal” … I meant to write a flat piece of aluminum coil stock to use on holes in a new plate and the picture above clearly illustrates what I was thinking of except doing it on a spare plate first.

A person could do it as in the photo on the side of the Hitzer air intake housing rather than the plate itself. Would be easy to get to as well being the side is easier access. I still think trying it on a spare plate first (at least for testing purposes) is best.

Those holes look big but as Oliver said, the holes can be made small to large and starting with one hole at a time as well.

With feeler gauges or calipers I should be able to get some approximate measurements of current opening to help figure out and guesstimate a starting hole size…which shouldn’t be all that important IF an adjustable hole cover is made like is shown on the picture Toddburn provided…which is exactly what I had in mind; a way to infinitely adjust the hole size without a lot of drilling and testing. Making it adjustable likely eliminates the need to Rt and measure anything…x cept for the sake of knowing the current opening “area”.

Once I figure it out and make it on a new plate I can either leave the plate there and use as is, close the holes and use it, or reinstall the old plate and drill the side of the air intake and use a simple flexible magnet to cover the holes…much like those thin refrigerator magnets barring failure from heat. The riveted or center screwed movable metal cover is more reliable and though…like in the picture.

 
Hoytman
Member
Posts: 5990
Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Mon. Jan. 09, 2023 1:27 am

Lightning wrote:
Sun. Jan. 08, 2023 1:48 pm
So what would happen if the magnet was removed?
Haven’t gotten that far. Was warmer than I’d like back there when I looked at adjusting it and/or removing it altogether. I’m still not clear on why it is needed.

 
waytomany?s
Member
Posts: 3747
Joined: Fri. Aug. 16, 2019 3:02 pm
Location: Oneida, N.Y.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon Mark II
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Looking
Baseburners & Antiques: Looking
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: newmac wood/coal combo furnace

Post by waytomany?s » Mon. Jan. 09, 2023 6:32 am

Hoytman wrote:
Mon. Jan. 09, 2023 1:27 am
Haven’t gotten that far. Was warmer than I’d like back there when I looked at adjusting it and/or removing it altogether. I’m still not clear on why it is needed.
I thought the magnet was.to.stop the tapping noise?

 
Hoytman
Member
Posts: 5990
Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Mon. Jan. 09, 2023 9:22 am

All I can say about is that there's been a lot of people post on here complaining about the tapping noise...so apparently if it is for that, then it doesn't work. LOL! Good question though.

I honestly have no idea if Hitzer claims that is what the magnet is for. I do know that since I lubricated mine with high temperature anti-sieze it doesn't tap...tap...tap anymore.

 
Hoytman
Member
Posts: 5990
Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Sat. Feb. 04, 2023 3:28 pm

Correction…

Since the last post above and putting a paper clip on the flap it has started “tinking” some again. Likely time to add some anti-seize and lube things up again. Been a winter or two since I had to do that.

This flap rarely opens with this paper clip on the flap UNLESS I need to turn the dial up like for this cold snap. When it does open the flap tends to “float” in that space where the magnet pulls on the plate slightly. The noise isn’t nearly as loud as it used to be before lubing things up and/or adding the paper clip. This noise it still rare to happen for me.

Post Reply

Return to “Hand Fired Coal Stoves & Furnaces Using Anthracite”