Today's Coal Consumption

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ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 6:23 am

The last couple of days the highs have been in the upper 40's and lows in the 30's. I didn't want to waste fuel and don't want the house 80* in the afternoon. I have 2 Hitzer 503's one inside a fireplace and one free standing. I closed off the ash pan doors like this.
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I only tended the stoves once in a 26 hour time period. Both stoves used the same amount of fuel.
I decided to know how much fuel I was using instead of just guessing. I have a coal pail at one stove so I weighed it empty and full to the amount I fill it. I put 26 pounds of coal in that pail and didn't use the entire pail to fill the stove. The downstairs stove I have a more precise amount used. I weighed the bag before and after the fill.
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23.4 pounds used in the one stove for 26 hours. Less than 50 pounds a day running two stoves.


 
KingCoal
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Post by KingCoal » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 6:32 am

Less than 1# per hour in either stove, thats a pretty good slow maintainable firing rate
Knowing the total area heated to what IAT and how many windowstats involved would enhance the picture some
Good job
steve

 
ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 6:51 am

Let me hypothesize with a mathematical extrapolating calculation.
I will say ideal temperature goal is 70 degrees at which point if temperature were at that point zero fuel would be needed.
I will estimate the average temperature in last 24 hours was 40*. 70-40=30* difference.
23.4/30=0.78/26 hours=0.03 pounds per degree drop from ideal per hour per stove. 0.03x24=0.72 pounds of fuel each 24 hours per degree below ideal per stove.
Suppose it is average temperature of 20* in a 24 hour period. 70*-20*=50* 50x0.72=36 pounds of fuel to run one stove heating the area to 70* without average outside temperature of 20*.
Suppose average temperature in dead of winter is -10*. To warm the house to ideal would be an 80* change. 80x0.72= 57.6 pounds per day. So if my hypothesis is anywhere close, when it is -10 outside, I will use 115* per day to heat my home to 70*. One day of heating at that temperature would be 5.75% of one ton. If I paid $340 per ton, 340x5.75%=$19.55 per day on the coldest day.
I will lastly speculate that the heating season is 135 days and the average daytime temperature over that period is 35*. 70-35=(35x0.72x135)x2 stoves = 6804 pounds for the season.
I need to make a conscious effort to not have my home too warm. I will shoot for the 70* ideal and try not to waste fuel.
House is approximately 3,000 square feet with 900 square feet as finished walkout basement. Remainder is first and second floor. House was built in 1982 with 2x4 construction and Anderson double pane windows. Not sure but probably R-13. Attic crawl space floors are insulated.

Upon a quick review of my hypothesis, I think the consumption used in the example is probably ideal and not achievable. I think an inefficiency factor of 15% needs to be added into the consumption factor.
So yearly usage will be projected at 6804x 115%=7824 or call it 4 tons.

 
zachary193
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Post by zachary193 » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 5:21 pm

I wish you would have taken some pictures of your coal bed and how it looked after 26 hours . That would help some newbies like me out for sure ! But that’s awesome that you can burn basically 1lb per hour ! I should weigh mine out and try the same thing

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 5:47 pm

zachary193 wrote:
Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 5:21 pm
I wish you would have taken some pictures of your coal bed and how it looked after 26 hours . That would help some newbies like me out for sure ! But that’s awesome that you can burn basically 1lb per hour ! I should weigh mine out and try the same thing
I think measuring coal usage is really cool and you'll learn a lot from it. To make it easy, figure that a full level 5 gallon pail is 40 pounds worth, which is close enough for horse shoes, hand grenades and burning coal.. :D

 
zachary193
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Post by zachary193 » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 9:46 pm

Lightning wrote:
Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 5:47 pm
I think measuring coal usage is really cool and you'll learn a lot from it. To make it easy, figure that a full level 5 gallon pail is 40 pounds worth, which is close enough for horse shoes, hand grenades and burning coal.. :D
I’m throwing on a hod a day . Trouble is one’s a tad bit bigger. But yes close enough for handgrenades ! About 1/2 of bag of blaschack go into a hod , right around 20 lbs .

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ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 4:50 am

zachary193 wrote:
Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 5:21 pm
I wish you would have taken some pictures of your coal bed and how it looked after 26 hours . That would help some newbies like me out for sure ! But that’s awesome that you can burn basically 1lb per hour ! I should weigh mine out and try the same thing
23 hours since last service. I have not touched the stove for 23 hours. This picture before opening ash pan.
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This is hopper view before opening ash pan door.

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This picture is from leaving ash pan door open for 3 minutes while I dump the ash pan.
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This is the coal left from yesterday. 29.6# Please note it did not fill hopper completely. I added another 3 pounds. The outside temperature is colder this morning than yesterday. However worth noting I didn't change the opening on the ash pan door. So somehow the stove burned more fuel because it is colder outside.
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View from hopper door after shake and before fill.
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After fill
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View from glass door after fill. No more orange coals visible. Note. I did not leave ash pan door open or open damper to get coal going. I just filled the stove and closed the doors. Since the coal is/was robustly burning and the new coal added was warm and dry, and the room temperature is above my 70* target, there is no need to develop a roaring fire inside the stove. There literally is no recovery necessary.
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Indoor Temperature
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Outdoor Temperature
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Last edited by ColdHouse on Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.


 
ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 5:05 am

zachary193 wrote:
Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 5:21 pm
I wish you would have taken some pictures of your coal bed and how it looked after 26 hours . That would help some newbies like me out for sure ! But that’s awesome that you can burn basically 1lb per hour ! I should weigh mine out and try the same thing
The procedure has been the same regardless of the amount of coal the stove is consuming. The last post demonstrates how I am tending the stove and how the coal bed is reacting between and after fill. The reason I weighed the coal was/is not to limit the amount I put in the stove, I will always fill it, but rather to know how much I was using instead of just guessing.
In my scenario I find pouring directly out of opened bags much simpler and easier than putting into a bucket. On the lower level of my home, I store open bags of coal in the utility room. There is a hybrid, heat pump, water heater in that room. So moisture/humidity is extracted from the open bags and the coal warms up some. But when I bring the bag and place it next to the stove, which I do before I need it, it is not dripping black, or iron, coal staining, water all over the floor and gets pretty warm from being close to the stove.
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zachary193
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Post by zachary193 » Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 5:53 am

You have me totally intrigued now. I’m going to have to go to the granary and dig out the old feed scales .

 
ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 6:32 am

zachary193 wrote:
Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 5:53 am
You have me totally intrigued now. I’m going to have to go to the granary and dig out the old feed scales .
Are those pictures what you were looking for?

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 10:12 am

Coldhouse said,.
"This is the coal left from yesterday. 29.6# Please note it did not fill hopper completely. I added another 3 pounds. The outside temperature is colder this morning than yesterday. However worth noting I didn't change the opening on the ash pan door. So somehow the stove burned more fuel because it is colder outside. "

Not uncommon with coal stoves. And it is something that would not be noticed with the up and down temps of a wood stove.

Without making any changes to damper settings, as outside temps drop the draft strength will increase and a coal stove often runs a bit hotter and uses more coal - unless there is some type of automatic primary damper, or baro in the stove pipe. Conversely, warmer weather will lower draft strength, thus lowering the stove's heat output.

This is something easily seen with hand-fed antiques that have a mano plumbed in and without any modern draft controls. They will slightly adjust their heat output to changes in outdoor temps.

Paul

 
zachary193
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Post by zachary193 » Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 5:17 pm

ColdHouse wrote:
Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 6:32 am
Are those pictures what you were looking for?

Yeah it helps , a little hard to see being a hopper stove and some fly ash on the door , I get the gist. I dug my feed scales out of the granary tonite I’ll see what I get . Interesting

 
ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Wed. Nov. 30, 2022 6:46 am

The other day I did my calculation by figuring the amount of coal per degree difference in ideal temperature. That I think would be ideal consumption. I have to wonder how accurate that will be. Here is a more realistic estimate.
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ColdHouse
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Post by ColdHouse » Tue. Dec. 13, 2022 8:49 am

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Update:
Has not been over 40* in over a week.
Past 24 hour period high 33* low 19*= average temperature 26*
Ideal indoor temperature 70*-26*=44* temperature variance
Coal consumption stove 1=43#
Coal consumption stove 2=37#
Consider stoves were totally packed and filled 24 hours ago and slightly less than totally filled today.
Amount put into stoves 80# Let's assume I could have squeezed in another 5# so 85# for 2 stoves for 24 hours with 44* temperature variance.
85/44=1.903/2 stoves =0.966 pounds per degree per stove.

Inquisitive minds want to know. Hmm. I know this. I made pizza yesterday and when I bake pizza I set my oven at 500* the highest setting it will go. It is very easy and fast to go from room temperature to 350*, 375*, 400* but let me tell you getting to 500* takes a long time. So with that in mind, I guess it is possible that the farther you get away from ambient temperature, the more energy or difficult it is to keep moving away from ambient temperature. However, If we knew how much coal was required to heat from -40* to +70* and we knew how much coal was required to heat from +69* to +70*, it would be a simple math calculation to figure the amount of coal required for every degree drop in temperature.

 
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Post by ShawnLiNy » Tue. Dec. 13, 2022 1:32 pm

Nice control , I'm on day 4 of 212*-260* ( basement is 72, upstairs is 66-8 ) turned it up to 300* today to anticipate lower temps tonight. Just entering my friends house is unpleasant at any temp heats with pellet stove , if the stove is on its 74 minimum up to 83* if it's off it gets cold immediately


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