"Huffing" Hitzer

 
Bagodonuts
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Post by Bagodonuts » Sun. Nov. 27, 2022 9:54 pm

I could use an opinion or 2 here...Lately my Hitzer 50-93 has been "huffing" for want of a better term. I think I know what's up, but...The last few loads of Blaschak coal seems to be better than the usual great stuff. After a good shake the dancing blue ladies are taller than I have ever seen them, great heat, lasts really long but my daughter started telling me the stove is making a noise and the fire gets sucked down for a second and then comes right back up. I run a T right off the back of the stove with a barometric in the back and the "up" pipe out to the flue. I'm thinking the barometric opens a bit and air enters the firebox area causing the huff, like when I sometimes open the feed door too fast and get a flare. It may have done this before and I don't know it because I'm #*%#ing deaf but I don't think so. Thoughts? Think it's a problem? Doesn't happen all the time, in fact it's somewhat rare. Just seems like a lot of gas in there and maybe some fresh air sets it off. :roll: :?:


 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 9:09 am

Probably just the bi-metallic doin what it does---never could understand WHY people feel the need to put a BARO on these HITZER units???

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 10:37 am

It sounds like you got some fresh coal with higher than normal volatile content. What happens is when you add fresh coal to the firebox, the temperature drops and the bimetallic thermostat opens the inlet flap to "rev up" the fire. Coal like you are burning will respond quickly, and the bimetallic thermostat will close the inlet flap before all of the volatiles have burned off. This causes volatile gasses to build in the firebox, and when the inlet flap opens again, the gasses ignite and you get the huffing sound.

You can avoid this a few different ways:
  • Shake the ashes down more often so there isn't as much fresh coal entering the firebox at once.
  • Leave the loading door cracked for a few minutes after shaking down the ashes.
  • Crack open the slider vent on the ash door so you can see a half moon through the holes.
Hitzer recommends the use of a damper (manual or barometric) only if the draft is too strong.

A draft of more than -.06 (inch wc) will waste some of your heat by causing it to be drawn up the
chimney too quickly. The higher the draft goes the more heat that is wasted up the chimney. A very
strong overdraft can also cause the stove to over fire. Over firing can cause the stove to develop
extremely high temperatures resulting in possible damage to the stove or a fire. Draft should never
exceed -.08 (inch wc). Over drafting can be controlled by installing a damper in the stovepipe. This
damper can be a barometric or manual damper. It is recommended to have this damper installed
during the stove installation. The damper may be installed in the vertical or horizontal portion of the
stovepipe. The stovepipe damper must be installed and calibrated according to the damper
manufacturer’s instructions.

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 10:47 am

If needed, you can cover the baro with tin foil instead of redoing your pipes. Or possibly use an actual cap over it.

edit: i should have said "if not needed"

 
Bagodonuts
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Post by Bagodonuts » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 12:14 pm

Thanks guys! I'm pretty convinced the coal is different (better?) than what I'm used to, the explanations with the bi-metal make sense...I should have thought that through. Hi Fred! Thanks for the input. Many moons ago at my old house when I bought my first coal stove I was told to use the baro. Never questioned it, always looked at it as a preventative measure for windy days. Knowing what I do now I'll probably delete it when I change out my stack pipes in the future.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 4:55 pm

B, try the tin foil first--you'll know whether ya need it or not. :)

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 6:02 pm

Bagodonuts wrote:
Sun. Nov. 27, 2022 9:54 pm
I'm thinking the barometric opens a bit and air enters the firebox area causing the huff, like when I sometimes open the feed door too fast and get a flare.
It's not likely in my opinion that air from the baro is getting into the burn chamber. It would need to go backwards against the normal flow of things for that to happen. I do agree that you probably don't need it. You would need a manometer to make sure.


 
Bagodonuts
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Post by Bagodonuts » Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 8:12 pm

Yes, good point Lightning, and a good idea there too F.F.! I gotta motivate myself and check it with a manometer just to see for myself where it's at. While I have your attention, I had the chimney for this stove built new before we moved in, about 5 years ago, I regret that I didn't have my builder install a cap. I could do it myself. What do you guys think of chimney caps? As always, thank you for the help!

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 11:07 am

B, I've got one on my coal stove cause I live on a seriously windy hill-- BUT, I also have a wood beast in the back of the house that doesn't have one ( I use it rarely)--my suggestion would be to put one on your stack.

Bagodonuts wrote:
Mon. Nov. 28, 2022 8:12 pm
Yes, good point Lightning, and a good idea there too F.F.! I gotta motivate myself and check it with a manometer just to see for myself where it's at. While I have your attention, I had the chimney for this stove built new before we moved in, about 5 years ago, I regret that I didn't have my builder install a cap. I could do it myself. What do you guys think of chimney caps? As always, thank you for the help!

 
Bagodonuts
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Post by Bagodonuts » Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 11:21 am

OK, thanks Fred! I'm gonna get that done, then it's one less thing to think about.

 
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BlackBetty06
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Post by BlackBetty06 » Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 6:09 pm

Sounds like you have some “gassy” coal this go around. Doesn’t sound like there is really anything wrong other than your noticing how the 50-93 handles gassy coal. This is one of the downfalls of the 50-93 in my personal opinion. Being as Hitzer didn’t add in any secondary air in their design, with a fresh load of coal, the volatiles start pouring out of the coal. The blue flames get going and the heat starts to pump. The stove heats up, the bi metallic closes gags the stove of all air and a nice fat gas bed builds up on top of the coal. Stove cools, bi-metallic opens and you get a fireworks and dust show for the kids. My Harman mark 3 with over fire air via the air wash for the glass could occasionally puff when I opened the load door after tending it. If it did, it was one and done as the air wash would keep the blue flames dancing and a small amount of air moving through the stove on top of the coal the entire time as the primary air settled back to normal when the ash pan door was closed and the stove cooled. My 50-93 will sometimes puff multiple times after tending sending plumes of ash out the bi-metallic opening along with some festive pings and dings as the flap on the bi-metallic flails around. This is just part of running this 50-93 stove when you get a slightly “gassy” load of coal. Ive said before, in my opinion it is a design flaw in the Hitzer 50-93. Why they didn’t add secondary air, i have no idea. The 503 and 983 fireplace inserts and 55 and 82 furnaces all have secondary air. Why they didn’t add it to the free standing stoves is beyond me. The 50-93 works great for most and other than the secondary air issue, is a great coal burner for me. If they would fix this one issue, the stove would be hard to beat in every aspect. Don’t sweat your stove puffing. It’s normal and will likely go away with the next load of coal if its a little less gassy.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 7:02 pm

For $30 you can cure it forever.
Call Hitzer and order 2 Hitzer 55 door spinners. They’re the smaller ones.

Center them where you want to install them and drill two center installation holes. Mark and drill 3-4 holes around this center hole. These are your air inlets. Install the spinner and bolt and nut and tack weld it into position. Do the same to the other side of the stove. Done!

Problem solved.

 
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BlackBetty06
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Post by BlackBetty06 » Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 7:22 pm

Hoytman wrote:
Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 7:02 pm
For $30 you can cure it forever.
Call Hitzer and order 2 Hitzer 55 door spinners. They’re the smaller ones.

Center them where you want to install them and drill two center installation holes. Mark and drill 3-4 holes around this center hole. These are your air inlets. Install the spinner and bolt and nut and tack weld it into position. Do the same to the other side of the stove. Done!

Problem solved.
I agree that would likely work, however your UL number is now worthless and your insurance company thinks a UL number is priceless.

 
Bagodonuts
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Post by Bagodonuts » Tue. Nov. 29, 2022 8:24 pm

Hey BlackBetty, yeah,this year's supply of coal has been amazing. As I said earlier the dancing blue ladies are awesome. My so-called huffing probably would have gone undetected if my daughter hadn't heard it while sitting nearby. no real signs of ash flying inside the stove or out the air inlet as of now. Knowing now what it is I'll probably just change my routine a bit when it gets cols again. Turned it down just a bit when we got back in the '40s and calmed it right down. Thanks for the input!

 
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Beeman
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Post by Beeman » Wed. Nov. 30, 2022 7:28 am

All good thoughts on this thread and I will add another. Several years ago, I had a problem with what seemed like "mini puffbacks." I did a lot of troubleshooting and got a lot of ideas on a thread (Mini-Puffbacks: Consult Please). The idea of extra volatiles in the coal turned out to be correct, but the volatiles did not come from the coal itself--my coal delivery guy said he put too much oil on the coal. This was revealed by him at the next delivery when I talked about the problem. Since then, no further problems. I think one gallon of oil per ton is the proper amount (check me guys on this statement), but my guy doubled that amount. Could this be your problem, too?


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