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Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 9:02 pm
by CorrosionMan
Thinking about building a 3 sided slab with roof for bulk coal storage. Minimum of 22 (semi load?) tons of coal.
What measurements am I looking at?
Also open to advice on what/what not to do.
Also, is a 6" thick slab strong enough for the semi trailer to back onto?
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 9:16 pm
by ShawnLiNy
12’ w x16’ L approx 6’ high is around 22 T
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 9:20 pm
by ShawnLiNy
So to dump it and factor what’s going to fall forward , it may need to be 30’L front to back
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 9:38 pm
by Freddy
The thickness of the slab depends a LOT on how solid the ground is underneath. I have a 5" slab with rebar that has never cracked with the rear semi wheels on it. My bin (inside) is 16 feet wide, 20 feet from front to back & 4 feet high. I used 2 by 2 by 4 foot cement stacking blocks for mine. It's actually a bit larger than need be. 18' instead of 20 would be fine. But, even at 20 feet you will have some spillage that needs to be moved back in. I lay a blue tarp to catch it & use a loader to move it back & up.
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 10:04 pm
by Retro_Origin
CorrosionMan wrote: ↑Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 9:02 pm
Also, is a 6" thick slab strong enough for the semi trailer to back onto?
Call your local concrete company or contractor if you want a solid answer. Pretty sure they go by psi/sq ft or sq in ratings. It's quite high but as freddy mentioned, cracking also has a lot to do with the
stability of surface underneath. I would surmise 6" would be enough, or ask a local truck garage how thick their floors are..granted they won't be supported a loaded truck normally.
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 12:27 am
by Hoytman
Stability of the surface underneath is your job. Don’t skimp. It’ll be too late if you do skimp. Compaction, compaction, compaction and proper drainage is just as important.
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 9:44 am
by McGiever
CorrosionMan wrote: ↑Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 9:02 pm
Also, is a 6" thick slab strong enough for the semi trailer to back onto?
Is slab existing or will be laid new?
Laid New then you have ability to have adequate steel reinforcement in place. Especially where loaded truck would be known to be entering to offload.
BTW: New concrete doesn’t have its designed strength until 21 days of curing.
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 11:04 am
by CorrosionMan
Ok, thanks folks. Lots of help
I think I will go 16'x30' by 6' walls.
Haven't decided for floor thickness. With or without the fiberglass rods for rebar... And with or without fiberglass mesh mixed in.
What kind of slope (forward should I use)? Was thinking again that a roof is not really necessary for coal.
What type and how thick should the walls be?
Nothing is installed now.... Starting with mostly flat ground. The idea is to have a semi truck/trailer back in and dump/unload.
Should I also saw cut at about every 8' ?
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 12:04 pm
by coalder
Just an opinion from a tired old mason. As Hoytman referenced, your sub grade is paramount. Your slab is only as good as the ground beneath it. If that moves, so will your slab. This is how I would do it: Remove all sod & if soil is spongy, dig down and put a layer of crushed stone if necessary. Either way get a plate tamper and pack it well. Pitch the slab about 1" per 15 ft. Form it with 2x6's & lay down a sheet of poly. The poly will slow the set & prevent premature cracking. Use wire mats over entire slab & give it 2 rows of 1/2" rebar around the perimeter. Suspend the rebar using broken pieced of brick & pull up the wire as you go. DONT use fiber mesh!! It's about as good as brushing your cat & throwing the hair in the concrete!! A simple bull float finish is all you need, & don't forget to use an edger where the truck will come onto the slap. A sharp square edge will break off. When slab is bull floated cover with plastic, As this will sweat & keep the concrete moist. Leave it on a week if you can.
A regular 3000- psi mix is all you need.
16ft by 30 ft by 51/2 inch= 8.14 yds
at 6 inch it = 8.88 yds. Just always there are only two ways to order concrete..... To little or To much.
Hope this helps
Jim
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 2:40 pm
by CorrosionMan
Jim, thank you for your experienced input.
Question, besides cost, is there any disadvantage to using fiber mesh if I build the slab as you suggested with the wire mesh and 2 half inch rebar around the perimeter?
What kind of wall should I use? Block or pour in place with panel forms? How thick? And supporting structure needed?
Thanks again.
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 3:27 pm
by ShawnLiNy
CorrosionMan wrote: ↑Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 2:40 pm
Jim, thank you for your experienced input.
Question, besides cost, is there any disadvantage to using fiber mesh if I build the slab as you suggested with the wire mesh and 2 half inch rebar around the perimeter?
What kind of wall should I use? Block or pour in place with panel forms? How thick? And supporting structure needed?
Thanks again.
For the walls I think your
Best bet is going to be the interlocking 2’x4’ block ( if a loader accidentally pushes the pile too far any concrete or cinderblock wall is likely to fail ) they are much cheaper and easily repurposed ( don’t know if zoning is an issue in your area but a slab built in place walls may qualify as a structure ) where movable walls won’t ,
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 3:36 pm
by coalder
Don't waste your money on fiber mesh. Over the years, had to demo out a few slabs. The fiber slabs came out like nothing was even there, while the wire slabs held together like you can't believe.
You are likely to have some serious lateral pressure going on there, depending on the depth of the coal. I would be afraid that either a block or even a poured wall might bow in the middle, & you would then have to do a haunch footing on the outside for x-tra wall support. I was thinking along the lines of mafia blocks like Freddy used.........Or like a salt shed, where you would anchor a 2x6 plate to the slab, frame 2x6 walls 2 ft o/c plywood on inside with diagonal outside bracing. It would look like a sawed off version of a DOT salt shed. Downside would be weed whacking around diag bracing. Or ........lay a strip of filter fabric around the outside, cover it with crush stone so weeds can't grow.
A poured wall could be done, but you would need 1/2' vertical rods 2' O/C embedded into the wet concrete & 2 rows of horizontal rods. 76 ft of 10" wall 6 ft high = 14.07 yds. At roughly $ 180.00 per/yd = $ 2520.00 just for wall concrete.
Concrete price reflects local area pricing. You do have options, but all have costs.
Jim
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 4:01 pm
by CorrosionMan
Well holy heck,
I decided to hire a pro for this.
Thanks for all the input. Like most things in life, there is more to it (to do it right) than you'd initially figured.
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 5:06 pm
by Hoytman
CorrosionMan wrote: ↑Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 4:01 pm
Well holy heck,
I decided to hire a pro for this.
Thanks for all the input. Like most things in life, there is more to it (to do it right) than you'd initially figured.
Actually, it’s hard work but not that hard to do if you have basic “heavy construction” and “heavy equipment” skills. It would be a good learning experience and you could save yourself a ton of money...but you will need help...which is usually the biggest problem for jobs like this. You’d likely need to rent equipment as well unless you already have it.
Ah! That’s a small job. LOL!
You haven’t lived until you’ve poured 350 yards of concrete into a massive bridge wall footer in 1 day and vibrated all of it alone without help...or until you’re 30+ feet up on a bridge wall form vibrating 175-250 yards of concrete alone (except for the guy behind you managing your rope and extension cord) and just waiting for the pump truck operator to knock you off the wall...all while 6 guys are still tightening the form bolts and you’re thinking you and the crew are screwed if it blows out...all while the boss is yelling at everyone to hurry up because concrete trucks are 10-20 deep on the road up top waiting to be unloaded and you’re praying like heck you can get them unloaded before the concrete sets up in their trucks or pumper or before they start unloading in the ditches.
Then there’s capping of a bridge pier in the middle of large creek or river 30-40ft up and standing up there waiting for the crane operator to knock you off the forms with the concrete bucket wondering if you’ll die quick by hitting your head on a rock or slow death by drowning. LOL! Fun times. No wonder I’m broke down so much at a young age. I do miss it. It’s heck getting old. LOL!
Man!! To be 25 and bullet proof again...
Re: Cubic area for 22 tons of coal.
Posted: Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 6:43 pm
by Retro_Origin
Hoytman wrote: ↑Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 5:06 pm
Actually, it’s hard work but not that hard to do if you have basic “heavy construction” and “heavy equipment” skills. It would be a good learning experience and you could save yourself a ton of money...but you will need help...which is usually the biggest problem for jobs like this. You’d likely need to rent equipment as well unless you already have it.
Ah! That’s a small job. LOL!
You haven’t lived until you’ve poured 350 yards of concrete into a massive bridge wall footer in 1 day and vibrated all of it alone without help...or until you’re 30+ feet up on a bridge wall form vibrating 175-250 yards of concrete alone (except for the guy behind you managing your rope and extension cord) and just waiting for the pump truck operator to knock you off the wall...all while 6 guys are still tightening the form bolts and you’re thinking you and the crew are screwed if it blows out...all while the boss is yelling at everyone to hurry up because concrete trucks are 10-20 deep on the road up top waiting to be unloaded and you’re praying like heck you can get them unloaded before the concrete sets up in their trucks or pumper or before they start unloading in the ditches.
Then there’s capping of a bridge pier in the middle of large creek or river 30-40ft up and standing up there waiting for the crane operator to knock you off the forms with the concrete bucket wondering if you’ll die quick by hitting your head on a rock or slow death by drowning. LOL! Fun times. No wonder I’m broke down so much at a young age. I do miss it. It’s heck getting old. LOL!
Man!! To be 25 and bullet proof again...
You sound like my dad! He did concrete most of his life, and now walks like a question mark! Nothing much gets his 'ire up like hearing the mixer coming up the road, the panic sets in and the hustle begins!