Masonry chimney size for new ds stove

 
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Post by Hoytman » Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 3:10 pm

Wasn’t aware of that, so thanks for that. A quick search proved you correct.

However, take note that there’s some tricky wording in some of the links I found like “low levels” and vermiculite mined from certain areas “rarely” has asbestos.

Just be cautious with both vermiculite and perlite during installation as both are very dusty.

If I thought that even the highest quality stainless steel liner wouldn’t rot in 3-5 years time from coal fly ash exposure, like some of the pictures I’ve seen, then I might be tempted to use it because it’s much easier to install. The cost of having to reinstall a second chimney or liner is what scares my wallet and is what has kept me leaning towards clay liners.

Most here recommend the clay.

I think KingCoal has stainless steel (over 30 ft I think) and has great service from it for several years. Others have as well, like Scott. Can’t recall Scott’s username.

Just do some searching around on this forum and then decide.


 
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Post by Hoytman » Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 3:24 pm

Please do come back and give us a report on the DS Energymax 160 once you get it hooked up and running this winter. We don’t see many DS reviews so it’ll be good to hear from some owners of them.

They seem like well built stoves. I’d like to have a 110 or Comfortmax 75 myself, if for nothing else but to tinker around with.

 
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Post by warminmn » Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 3:34 pm

If I ever have to replace a section of stainless chimney it will be a used section from someone who burned wood. I must be over a decade now with my stainless and coal. I burned wood a decade in it before that and still some early and late each year. It gives it some built in protection.

And yes, let us know how the DS works for you this coming winter.

 
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Post by coalder » Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 5:35 pm

Bill, will try to answer some questions the best I can, through both experience & opinion. Would I ever consider a SS chimney......YES. Chimney blocks are man killers, & most masons are acutely aware of this. I would rather be on a foundation laying 10" heavyweight block for a week than do one fckn chimney block chimney. And unless you keep a good eye on the cement cap, water can penetrate the chimney & crack it all to hell. Some are under the illusion that a masonry chimney is forever.......NOT!!!
All chimneys require a degree of maintenance & repair. That being said I would top out the SS chimney with a 1 ft piece. Because this is where most decay starts & is cheaper to replace 1 ft than a 4 ft section. Also, I am a firm believer that burning wood at the end of the season coats & helps preserve the SS.

Also, found a place in PA, Olympia chimney supply, that guarantees their SS for life even with coal. Believe they use 316-L.

Now as far as insulating a masonry chimney...........really?????? WTF is maybe 1/4" of powder really gonna do??? And do you really think you are gonna get it to flow down past where the mortar oozes out between the blocks. Let me put it this way, My uncle was a mason, my FIL was a mason, my partner had 3 uncles that were masons & guess what NOBODY ever even heard of "trying to insulate a chimney. Again just my opinion from bout 40 yrs experience & observation. Vermiculite was exclusively used to insulate the core of exterior wall blocks, where it could be easily poured in. To insulate a chimney flue sounds good..........BUT only in theory.

Now Warm, FWIW did a block chimney for a buddy years ago. When I got done, told him to fire it easy for first hour.....especially ifn it got real cold. I wanted to let the chimney acclimate. Well, as it happened, it rained like a cow pissin on a flat rock & then the temps dropped well below freezing. Now don't ya know John goes in the basement the next day & fires
up the wood stove, and I mean he fired it up. Tells me that bout an hour later BOOOOOM!!! Told me it sounded like a shotgun goin off. So much for starting a new chimney easy........................................................Sound familiar??? LOL

Jim

 
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Post by Hoytman » Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 7:45 pm

I’ve always heard of starting a new masonry chimney AND a cold chimney easy (new or not). The men that told me this would likely be 100 years old by now if they were still alive.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 7:51 pm

Here’s a link to the chimney that I mentioned forum member Pauliewog doing... Post by Pauliewog - Want to build a mason chimney . It appears he not only filled the block with Perlite, but also around the liner. I’ve seen others done similarly on other forums, but I can’t find the links.

 
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Post by coalder » Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 8:31 pm

Bill, I also remember seeing & commenting regarding his chimney. It's not a bad idea to insulate a flue when you have the space around the flue to do so. However, he was building a fireplace & therefore was able allow room around the flue in order to accommodate some insulation. Where when using chimney block, you only have about 1/4' clearance, sometimes less, between the flue & the block on all sides. This makes getting any insulation between the block & flue extremely difficult. And like I said previously, how effective is only maybe 1/4' of insulation? If you can even get it flow in there. .......Similar to wearing a straw hat in Siberia.
Jim


 
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Post by Hoytman » Wed. Jun. 22, 2022 10:38 pm

Thanks Jim. I caught what you said about 1/4” space, but failed to take note in Pauliewog’s pictures that it was for a fireplace.

Here’s some links to some things I’ve been searching. There are other masonry options that I’ve been researching for awhile now. Problem is finding someone with experience using them and more importantly finding a review, let alone a review about longevity.

If nothing else these are interesting and show the potential advancements made in masonry technology, although I’m not sure they’re really at better than clay. Might be easier, but not cheaper. Convenience comes at a cost I suppose.

https://messickstove.com/resources/2018-Brochures ... himTek.pdf

https://www.woodlanddirect.com/isokern-masonry-ch ... 31253.html

https://earthcore.com/dm54/ (Isokern ... Florida)

https://www.schiedel.com/uk/products/pumice-syste ... sokern-dm/ (DM36, DM44, DM 54 ... Isokern also)



Not sure if ceramic liners are available in the U.S. or not.
https://www.schiedel.com/uk/products/ceramic-syst ... ih-liners/


This is interesting. This a video made over across the pond, but it an Isokern product, which can be found in Florida and possibly other states. Just have to search.
https://www.schiedel.com/uk/products/pumice-syste ... ce-liners/

Same product, just different name and more and better installation details.
https://www.specflue.com/download/e0d1-5850-a007- ... 0c3f-d7d6/

Last bit of info from my digging. LOL!
Best I can tell ... page 7 of this link ... https://www.earthcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2021 ... 210728.pdf ... Isokern is a registered trademark of the Earthcore Industries headquartered in Florida and made in the U.S.A. in Virginia ... but dang it took some digging to find that information. Ridiculous! That, or I suck at researching. Ha!

Thank you very much. We are here to help where we can and if we can. LOL!

 
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Post by Hoytman » Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 12:01 am



So much for having minimal air gap between the block and liner. Those liners could easily shift. There’s almost enough room to stuff a foam mattress in each side for insulation. LOL! Probably some missing video or maybe a reason for such large gap.

 
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Post by McGiever » Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 9:54 am

:yes: Lots of 20 foot 8X12 liners out there and they work flawlessly.
No need to over think this.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 5:42 pm

McGiever wrote:
Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 9:54 am
:yes: Lots of 20 foot 8X12 liners out there and they work flawlessly.
No need to over think this.
I agree Larry. Plenty that size working well.

This works if you can do the install work yourself, but wouldn’t this present a problem by today’s standards if it has to pass national fire code and be installed by a chimney sweep?

I thought that national fire code says there can only be 1” difference between the liner size and the stove breech ... 1” bigger or smaller either way? Maybe it has changed.

Of course, I could really care less about the code. LOL! I just know it can be an issue if a person is selling their home or just cares about codes and wants to be up to date.

The sweeps I called here a few years ago tried to tell me any liner had to match the stove breech for them to install it and pass code. However, I thought I recalled finding out there was a 1” variance either way. Maybe I’m mistaken.

I know the sweeps that came here did the inspection but failed to charge me or give me a receipt likely because of liability reasons based on them seeing my 7” stove breech and 8” chimney. I thought I did some research afterwards, but I can’t remember now. Chimney was clean, but a few cracked liners down low near thimble.Not bad for its age.

I only bring this up because I’m not sure if the OP is planning to do his own work or hire some “certified” pro chimney sweep. Seems that maybe could make a difference in what size chimney he builds or has built.
Last edited by Hoytman on Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 8:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

 
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Post by coalder » Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 6:45 pm

McGiever wrote:
Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 9:54 am
:yes: Lots of 20 foot 8X12 liners out there and they work flawlessly.
No need to over think this.
When building new, why pay a third more & Lift a third more when it is totally not necessary & better going smaller???
This isn't overthinking, just a simple no brainer.
Jim

 
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Post by McGiever » Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 9:46 pm

coalder wrote:
Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 6:45 pm
When building new, why pay a third more & Lift a third more when it is totally not necessary & better going smaller???
This isn't overthinking, just a simple no brainer.
Jim
Awe, c’mon now don’t be skered!

 
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Post by coalder » Fri. Jun. 24, 2022 8:22 am

McGiever wrote:
Thu. Jun. 23, 2022 9:46 pm
Awe, c’mon now don’t be skered!
Sorry Mc, apparently Noah Webster or myself for that matter ever heard of the word "skered"?? So I'm quite sure that I'm not.
But I do appreciate your concern.
Jim

 
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Post by cosmacart » Wed. Sep. 21, 2022 11:07 pm

would it be a good cheap idea to insulate around clay liner withSAND!!!


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