Performance of antiques vs modern coal stoves?
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I'm curious if anyone might know the efficiency / performance of antique stoves vs new models of stoves.
Obviously something like Round Oaks won't compete that well, but what about something like fancy base burners?
I just really dislike the form function of modern stove designs, and would love some sort of data / comparison to make it easier to go full into antique stoves.
Obviously something like Round Oaks won't compete that well, but what about something like fancy base burners?
I just really dislike the form function of modern stove designs, and would love some sort of data / comparison to make it easier to go full into antique stoves.
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25559
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Welcome See,
I've never heard of an apples-to-apples test lab comparisons of hand-fed stoves. There are no BTU ratings for antiques and any ratings for modern stoves are questionable.
About the only way you can compare them is by how well they transfer heat. Many of us compare the ratio of the stove's hottest surface temps to the stove pipe temps measured just a couple of feet up from the stove's pipe collar. In other words, how much heat is the stove able to extract before the exhaust gets to the stove pipe.
Many of the antiques route the exhaust through longer flues than the modern stoves, thus they keep send more heat to the room and less heat up the pipe. Some designs extract so much heat from the exhaust that they are capable of high stove temps, while the pipe temps get lowered so much that you can often put your hand on the stove pipe just a couple of feet from the stove.
Example;
My Glenwood base heater has about a five foot exhaust path from the firebed through a flue to down under the ash pan area, around in there, and back up to the exit collar. The barrel can run in the 500-550F range and two feet up from the collar the pipe is around 150F. With the manometer gauge reading between 0.01 and 0.02.
My Glenwood kitchen range does even better thanks to about ten feet of internal flue length. 600F at the cook top over the firebed and just over 100F two feet up from the collar. With the mano reading less than 0.01.
Even many oaks had a "back pipe" to add length to the exhaust path and extract more heat. Plus, those longer flues add flow resistance to help slow the exhaust speed so there is more time for heat transfer.
By the early 1900's many of the better stove makers had efficient coal stove designs pretty well figured out. But after WWII demand died and with it most of that knowledge,.... before the late 1970 when the oil embargos started a new wave of stove making that the modern stoves are an outgrowth of those simpler wood stove designs.
Paul
I've never heard of an apples-to-apples test lab comparisons of hand-fed stoves. There are no BTU ratings for antiques and any ratings for modern stoves are questionable.
About the only way you can compare them is by how well they transfer heat. Many of us compare the ratio of the stove's hottest surface temps to the stove pipe temps measured just a couple of feet up from the stove's pipe collar. In other words, how much heat is the stove able to extract before the exhaust gets to the stove pipe.
Many of the antiques route the exhaust through longer flues than the modern stoves, thus they keep send more heat to the room and less heat up the pipe. Some designs extract so much heat from the exhaust that they are capable of high stove temps, while the pipe temps get lowered so much that you can often put your hand on the stove pipe just a couple of feet from the stove.
Example;
My Glenwood base heater has about a five foot exhaust path from the firebed through a flue to down under the ash pan area, around in there, and back up to the exit collar. The barrel can run in the 500-550F range and two feet up from the collar the pipe is around 150F. With the manometer gauge reading between 0.01 and 0.02.
My Glenwood kitchen range does even better thanks to about ten feet of internal flue length. 600F at the cook top over the firebed and just over 100F two feet up from the collar. With the mano reading less than 0.01.
Even many oaks had a "back pipe" to add length to the exhaust path and extract more heat. Plus, those longer flues add flow resistance to help slow the exhaust speed so there is more time for heat transfer.
By the early 1900's many of the better stove makers had efficient coal stove designs pretty well figured out. But after WWII demand died and with it most of that knowledge,.... before the late 1970 when the oil embargos started a new wave of stove making that the modern stoves are an outgrowth of those simpler wood stove designs.
Paul
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply. It seems like there isn't much to worry about then.
I was reading some other threads last night and it seems a lot of people say their baseburners outclass modern stoves even (which makes sense to me, looking at the basic square box stoves of today just doesn't really instill much faith)
I was reading some other threads last night and it seems a lot of people say their baseburners outclass modern stoves even (which makes sense to me, looking at the basic square box stoves of today just doesn't really instill much faith)
- freetown fred
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- Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Freetown,NY 13803
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Totally different critters S. Both real functional.
- oliver power
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- Posts: 2970
- Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
- Location: Near Dansville, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-2310), D.S. 1600 Circulator, Hitzer 254
A lot of the older stoves also have tin / sheet metal on them. The tin heated up quick to transfer heat (the wood burning days). When it comes to coal, the 50-93 was a game changer for me. Great Stove....
Last edited by oliver power on Sun. May. 22, 2022 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- mntbugy
- Member
- Posts: 2042
- Joined: Fri. Dec. 23, 2016 2:36 pm
- Location: clearfield,pa
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: D S 1500, Warm Moring 400
- Baseburners & Antiques: Art Garland 145,GW114 ,Clarion 115, Vestal 20 Globe,New Royal22 Globe, Red Cross Oak 56,Acme Ventiduct 38,Radiant Airblast 626,Home Airblast 62,Moores #7,Moores 3way
- Coal Size/Type: stove and nut and some bit
- Other Heating: Propain
Newer box stoves with BI-METALIC thermostat will hold the exact temperature for 2 days +/- without shaking. Even when ashed up. If you are not able to tend stove on a regular time schedule. Industrial looking, no fancy decorations. Lose value when you leave the parking lot. Some are clean to operate, some are dirty.
Antiques need tending on the 12's +/- time schedule, before ashing up and the temp starts lowering. They hold there value much better over time. Gots curb appeal. Fancy on top of fancy. No buying fancy gadgets to get the stove to run better, already built into the stove body. Some have fire view windows on 3 or 4 sides. Not 10 million out there identical to yours. Will blow the doors off a box stove, while making heat and taking sipping coal to the next level. Parts can be extremely difficult to find/replace. Some are extremely clean to operate, some super dirty.
Antiques need tending on the 12's +/- time schedule, before ashing up and the temp starts lowering. They hold there value much better over time. Gots curb appeal. Fancy on top of fancy. No buying fancy gadgets to get the stove to run better, already built into the stove body. Some have fire view windows on 3 or 4 sides. Not 10 million out there identical to yours. Will blow the doors off a box stove, while making heat and taking sipping coal to the next level. Parts can be extremely difficult to find/replace. Some are extremely clean to operate, some super dirty.
- freetown fred
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- Posts: 30293
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Freetown,NY 13803
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Soooo, the question--ya want your friends ooohhh'n & aahhh'n or ya just want to keep warm????????????????????????????
- mntbugy
- Member
- Posts: 2042
- Joined: Fri. Dec. 23, 2016 2:36 pm
- Location: clearfield,pa
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: D S 1500, Warm Moring 400
- Baseburners & Antiques: Art Garland 145,GW114 ,Clarion 115, Vestal 20 Globe,New Royal22 Globe, Red Cross Oak 56,Acme Ventiduct 38,Radiant Airblast 626,Home Airblast 62,Moores #7,Moores 3way
- Coal Size/Type: stove and nut and some bit
- Other Heating: Propain
Play your cards right. You get ohhh & ahhh and sweating.
- warminmn
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- Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
- Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Riteway 37
- Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
- Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt
I think its as much the hearth for oohhing and ahhing over than it is the stove. Ive seen some pics of beautiful stone hearths on here that any stove will look nice sitting on. Im for just staying warm at the moment but i guess if the right deal popped up I might spring for a simple antique model without too many windows. i wont look too hard though.
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- Joined: Sat. Feb. 22, 2020 9:46 pm
- Location: Bethel, Pa
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: 2 Legacy TLC 2000 one in the upper and 1 in the lower part of the house
- Coal Size/Type: Wood and pea, nut ,stove and egg coal
I don't know much about the antique stoves, but I believe the older stoves in general are much more efficient. I do know for a fact that my old convection heat Estate heatrola was much more efficient for distributing heat through out the house than my radiant heat Legacy 2000. But the maintenance is much lower with the TLC vs the heatrola, were now I generally tend to the TLC about once every 24 hours, and the heatrola was only good for a maximum of 12 hours, if lucky. So there are trade offs on either the newer box stoves and the older style stoves. But one thing for sure is that you cant beat convection heat. It's still number 1 in my book.