Burning wood in a hetzer 354

Has anyone added a air spinner on a hetzer 354 to burn wood better

I have the Hitzer 254 which I had been burning for a couple of years with wood. It does a pretty good job. It creosote up the glass and chimmey pretty bad. A lot of that was caused from a bad choice of wood and Choking it down too much. To answer your question I haven't put spinners on my 254 but would be interested to hear the results of anyone that has also.

I doubt anyone here has tried it or you would have seen a response by now.

I do know that a Hitzer 55 spinner came be had for about $15 because I bought one to add to my 354 ash pan door (no vents).

I do plan to add secondary burn tubes to the inside of my 354 just for burning wood. Just haven’t done it yet, but it’s still in the works...although I don’t know why. With nut coal I can rarely turn my stove up hotter than 350 most of the time. Not nearly hot enough to maintain a decent wood fire with going to creosote city.

That’s my situation with adding secondary burn tubes...

...but it could still be done and used when burning coal.

That said, I realize many 354 owners have a need to burn their stoves much hotter than I do, but I said that I o say this...

...I have a very strong suspicion that those who do burn hotter and want to burn wood...your stove is still going to likely require a severe adjustment to the ball chain and the stat dial setting in order to maintain a cleaner burn. That’s not written in stone, just my observation with 3 years burning my stove and having tried burning wood a number of times using the same dial settings as with nut coal.

Coal cruises at a much lower temperature without large heat swings of the stove and home temperature and because of that constant low temperature being pumped out of the stove the result is a stove running at much lower temperature than a wood stove.

It is because of these heat cycles when burning wood, generally large indoor temp swings, you will need to make at least some dial setting adjustments (higher) and maybe even a severe chain adjustment because the stove will cycle much hotter from a cold home and as the wood burns down the temp will also swing way low depending on how often you feed the stove. Trying to burn wood on the same coal burn dial settings caused the flap to close too soon and this creosotes up the stove glass, inside of the stove and the chimney. Not good!! Can be dangerous causing chimney fires.

Of course, there can be many variables to this depending on how a person likes to heat their home. Most wood burners On know let the house get cool before starting a fire, then they get the stove ripping and usually overheat the home and they let the stove die down and the cycle starts over again. Of course, some modern wood stoves allow for constant even heat as well, like Blaze King wood stoves.

Without secondary burn tubes added to these stoves the best way to burn them would be with large hole heat cycles thus heating with short, hot, wood fires to try and provide a cleaner burn. Because of this, with current coal dial settings I have found that even when I turn my dial all the way up as high as it will go, the flap still closed much too soon and stays closed for extended periods of time shooting the stove up. That is why I say that even a severe ball chain adjustment may be required to try and keep the flap open longer to a point and then close at the right time while still preventing a dirty wood burn.

Now...add the secondary burn tubes to the stove working in conjunction with and in harmony with the bi-metal thermostat, which is the tricky part, and you’re on your way to a fantastic burning coal AND wood stove.

Just some $.2 cent ramblings...

Any sense of what that ball chain adjustment to burn wood better would be? I assume you mean shortening the chain.

Thanks.

Pete

Hoytman wrote: ↑

Tue. Mar. 22, 2022 12:09 am

I doubt anyone here has tried it or you would have seen a response by now.

I do know that a Hitzer 55 spinner came be had for about $15 because I bought one to add to my 354 ash pan door (no vents).

I do plan to add secondary burn tubes to the inside of my 354 just for burning wood. Just haven’t done it yet, but it’s still in the works...although I don’t know why. With nut coal I can rarely turn my stove up hotter than 350 most of the time. Not nearly hot enough to maintain a decent wood fire with going to creosote city.

That’s my situation with adding secondary burn tubes...

...but it could still be done and used when burning coal.

That said, I realize many 354 owners have a need to burn their stoves much hotter than I do, but I said that I o say this...

...I have a very strong suspicion that those who do burn hotter and want to burn wood...your stove is still going to likely require a severe adjustment to the ball chain and the stat dial setting in order to maintain a cleaner burn. That’s not written in stone, just my observation with 3 years burning my stove and having tried burning wood a number of times using the same dial settings as with nut coal.

Coal cruises at a much lower temperature without large heat swings of the stove and home temperature and because of that constant low temperature being pumped out of the stove the result is a stove running at much lower temperature than a wood stove.

It is because of these heat cycles when burning wood, generally large indoor temp swings, you will need to make at least some dial setting adjustments (higher) and maybe even a severe chain adjustment because the stove will cycle much hotter from a cold home and as the wood burns down the temp will also swing way low depending on how often you feed the stove. Trying to burn wood on the same coal burn dial settings caused the flap to close too soon and this creosotes up the stove glass, inside of the stove and the chimney. Not good!! Can be dangerous causing chimney fires.

Of course, there can be many variables to this depending on how a person likes to heat their home. Most wood burners On know let the house get cool before starting a fire, then they get the stove ripping and usually overheat the home and they let the stove die down and the cycle starts over again. Of course, some modern wood stoves allow for constant even heat as well, like Blaze King wood stoves.

Without secondary burn tubes added to these stoves the best way to burn them would be with large hole heat cycles thus heating with short, hot, wood fires to try and provide a cleaner burn. Because of this, with current coal dial settings I have found that even when I turn my dial all the way up as high as it will go, the flap still closed much too soon and stays closed for extended periods of time shooting the stove up. That is why I say that even a severe ball chain adjustment may be required to try and keep the flap open longer to a point and then close at the right time while still preventing a dirty wood burn.

Now...add the secondary burn tubes to the stove working in conjunction with and in harmony with the bi-metal thermostat, which is the tricky part, and you’re on your way to a fantastic burning coal AND wood stove.

Just some $.2 cent ramblings...

pantosketcham wrote: ↑

Tue. Mar. 22, 2022 7:51 am

Any sense of what that ball chain adjustment to burn wood better would be? I assume you mean shortening the chain.

Thanks.

Pete

No. Pure trial and error.
A start might be 2 balls shorter, but that is just a guess on my part. I haven't even tried it myself, yet, so I can't say for sure.

I can tell you that at my current ball chain settings for nut coal, and keeping those chain settings for wood, I did try adjusting the dial...even all the way up and it still would NOT allow the flap to stay open long enough for the wood get to the coaling stage, not even close...which means creosote. My windows were clean as a whistle and as soon as the stove thermostat got to the temperature at the highest dial setting the flap closed and the windows immediately went black (using 4 year stacked and dried wood and using a moisture meter on that wood). That is what causes me to think a severe ball chain adjustment is needed for the thermostat to run the stove with wood (more than two balls shorter).

Key note:
Before moving and/or changing your ball chain for wood, a person might want to take a black magic marker and mark his/her ball chain setting for burning coal. That way you can easily return the chain to its coal burn setting. This also keeps the dial settings the same for coal.

I'm sorry but, you guys slay me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Why?

C’mon, Fred. I haven’t seen a person yet here yet who has seriously burned wood in a hand fed Hitzer and then offered up detailed info as to how to run the stove...even though “He” says many are used that way.

People are hungry for the information it seems and there is little out there. Probably would run the same as an old Earth stove but that doesn’t tell anyone anything unless they are familiar with them.

I was told (by the man) Hitzer used to include such info with their stoves, but when I asked “He” would not divulge any information on using the thermostat with wood...likely for legal reasons. “He” did tell me “he” burned wood in “His” insert for years as well as coal. Get this...”He” makes the stoves and heats with propane.

I know you say many of us like to complicate things and I get you laughing at that. I resemble that remark. LOL!

Not sure why someone looking for wood burning info with a Hitzer is so funny though. They don’t know what they don’t know. Even you say there are no stupid questions. Are you retracting that? LOL!

I know for a fact I can’t use the same settings for wood as I do with coal. Won’t work. Turning the dial all the way up also did not work. Still not enough range. That seems to me like then that a ball chain adjustment is needed. If that is wrong I wish someone would speak up.

I’ve asked for the information as well, especially with a two door 354. The builder could only say so much. Basically told me trial and error. That’s fine for a guy like me who is familiar with the stove after burning coal a few years...worthless to a mew owner who has no clue and is asking honest questions looking for honest answers.

It’s a shame the EPA has such a grip on people they’re afraid of being sued.

Hoytman wrote: ↑

Tue. Mar. 22, 2022 9:01 pm

Why?

C’mon, Fred. I haven’t seen a person yet here who has seriously burned wood in a hand fed Hitzer, though “He” says many are used that way, and then offered up detailed info as to how to run the stove.

I am told (by the man) Hitzer used to include such info with their stoves, but when I asked “He” would not divulge any information on using the thermostat with wood...likely for legal reasons. He did tell me he burned wood in “His” insert for years as well as coal. Get this...”He” makes the stoves and heats with propane.

There has to be older manuals floating around that have that information. I'm guessing they just deleted those pages from the new manual after the new regs went into effect.

Using wood in the Hitzer models (or many of the other coal stoves) is different than burning in a modern efficient woodstove. Im thinking many are trying to duplicate it... the simplest way I can say it is to forget all the clean burn tech, trying to burn without smoke, quick hot burns, and all that stuff.

Fill them with wood, get it burning hot for a minute to burn off creosote from the pipes, and then shut it down and run it the temp you need for heat. If you have over fire air open that up to help eficiency a little. If your trying to burn the wood clean your going to be a slave to your stove. Let it smoke, just choke the stove down so it doesnt burn so fast (as long as your warm). Thats how they were made to burn. Heck yes it uses more wood than a modern stove. Switch to coal quicker then if you can afford too. Sweep the pipes often.

I dont think I use any different air intake settings for wood than I do coal in cold weather. They will open and close at the same temps for either fuel. The air doors spring doesnt know the difference between the fuels, just knows when it needs to open and close. But I will open the bottom door for a while to get the wood burning hot to clean creosote from the pipes. Probably pushing 600 degrees before I close it. Then I turn the MPD a little bit and walk away until Im getting cold again. 4-8 hrs depending on the wood and how hot Im running the stove.

Just my opinion but the over fire pipes have worked better for me than a door spinner. Lightning has a post I followed about adding the pipes when I made mine for a previous stove that did really well. There are a couple other great posts on it also. But they are more work than adding a spinner so that is better for most people.

Let the stove ash up and just poke a hole in one part of the grate and that gives it a little more air from the top also.

My Dad only burns wood in his Hitzer 55 and it does fine. I can hear the burn going (the sucking sound) from the door spinner when Im there for quite a while after its filled. He burned 2 cords so far this year and more in previous years. Just burns about half the day and relights it the next day.

The more complicated the process is made the more time its going to take each day. KISS if possible. Dont be scared to let it smoke some.

Most the manuals are just basic stuff. There are probably a few more detailed ones if you hunt hard.

Hoytman wrote: ↑

Tue. Mar. 22, 2022 9:01 pm

Why?

C’mon, Fred. I haven’t seen a person yet here yet who has seriously burned wood in a hand fed Hitzer and then offered up detailed info as to how to run the stove...even though “He” says many are used that way.

People are hungry for the information it seems and there is little out there. Probably would run the same as an old Earth stove but that doesn’t tell anyone anything unless they are familiar with them.

I was told (by the man) Hitzer used to include such info with their stoves, but when I asked “He” would not divulge any information on using the thermostat with wood...likely for legal reasons. “He” did tell me “he” burned wood in “His” insert for years as well as coal. Get this...”He” makes the stoves and heats with propane.

I know you say many of us like to complicate things and I get you laughing at that. I resemble that remark. LOL!

Not sure why someone looking for wood burning info with a Hitzer is so funny though. They don’t know what they don’t know. Even you say there are no stupid questions. Are you retracting that? LOL!

I know for a fact I can’t use the same settings for wood as I do with coal. Won’t work. Turning the dial all the way up also did not work. Still not enough range. That seems to me like then that a ball chain adjustment is needed. If that is wrong I wish someone would speak up.

I’ve asked for the information as well, especially with a two door 354. The builder could only say so much. Basically told me trial and error. That’s fine for a guy like me who is familiar with the stove after burning coal a few years...worthless to a mew owner who has no clue and is asking honest questions looking for honest answers.

It’s a shame the EPA has such a grip on people they’re afraid of being sued.

I have burned wood exclusively in my Hitzer 254 for the last 2 or 3 years. I use the same setting as I use for coal. I purchased the stove to burn coal after I used up 15 cords of wood left by the person I bought my house from. Now thats it is gone I have been burning nut coal. I never had a problem holding a fire over night with wood in my 254. I always had 10 hour burns. Yes it was choked down, lots of smoke, but it worked. I did have to let the ash build up in the stove before I could get it to burn over night, but again it worked. Would I rather had a regular wood stove, well certainly, but I was not going to buy two stoves.
I ran a Quad-fire wood stove in my house in Montana for 25 years. Burned coal in a Hitzer 254 in Alaska for 6 years. Now in Michigan burning wood and coal in my 254. Not a problem! My Hitzer was sold to me as a multi purpose stove. I never thought twice about burning wood or coal in it. It does both, but it is a much better coal stove than a wood stove. I would have to agree with warminmn on his assessment of burning wood in a coal stove.

I’m telling you I can’t. The reason is because I already adjusted my chain for coal cruising to have low dial settings when I first got the stove. This gave me plenty of dial room to be able to turn the temp up should I have needed it. Turns out I didn’t need it the extra dial space for coal, so I left it.

That said, now think about that. I have a stove that is set for low dial number settings and I still need more adjustment with wood. What does that tell you? It tells you had I started with my dial in the middle number, I would have even less room to increase my air for wood burning and increase the stove temperature and allow a fresh load enough room to reach the coaling stage.

Oh...I’m very familiar with my stove...and very familiar with what dry wood is...cut, split, stacked 3-4 years now. I still have my pre-epa stove I heated this house with wood with and also have a modern tube stove.

What you’re not taking into consideration is your 254 likely fits the size of your house. My 354 is a 3000 square ft stove heating only 1350 sq ft. With current settings I can burn a small hot load just fine with only the spinners full open and flap unhooked from chain, but it only burns for a little while before needing more wood...about a two hour burn is all. If I try larger loads...with current settings...unless ash door remains open and me baby sitting the stove...it can’t fully ignite all the wood before the flap closes much too soon. Even with dial turned all the way up, spinners full open the stove was too starved for air to fully ignite a large load without the ash door open or load doors kept open. By then the flap is still closing too soon...so the only way to keep it open is to adjust my chain.

I think that a lot of people think they have their stove figured out with coal. But they still don’t fully understand it with wood, nor the available adjustments that the dial and chain settings can afford the user in different scenarios ..which is what I seek to understand by trying it.

I wonder how many realize the chain and dial can be set so the stove can never be turned down too far by the dial? That is, it can be adjusted so that the stove never dies or never goes below “just above dying”. One of our members here explained this to me and it makes perfect sense to set the dial and chain to your lowest possible cruise temps. I was well on my way towards this setting when I first adjusted the chain. The reason I stopped was because I was so new to coal burning that I had yet found my lowest cruising temperature before the coal fire died out.

You can also just crack the ash door vents enough to keep the fire from dying, or use a paper clip on the flap door which I recently started doing...but then you wouldn’t fully understand how functional the thermostat really can be. I understand factory settings are simple...if you’re not interested in learning anything else, that is.

If I had the smaller 254 in this house then I am sure it would work as you say, but our set-ups are far from the same and that alone has complicated the coal learning curve for me over three years, but I’ve slowly learned to straighten that curve some. I fully acknowledge that these stoves can’t fully be learned and/or understood in only a few years. I’m still learning nuances of these stoves. Just check out me and Oliver Power’s comments on the more recent 254 threads. He taught me a way to load my stove that goes against what everyone else suggests, even what the manufacturers suggest and it works flawlessly.

A lot of members here say that when burning coal at tending that you need to see blue flames. Freetown Fred taught me that isn’t always necessary and wastes energy. I now don’t have to wait for blue flames after tending so long as red coals are showing. He also taught me when to just “load it up” after a certain amount of layering. The method works quite well.

Oliver’s methods are entirely different and also work quite well.

Between FF and Oliver, as well as others here, I can safely and comfortably load my stove and burn coal via the different methods which I explain in detail in one of the recent 254 threads.

So, my wood burning experience isn’t over yet. I’ve got some things to try that may or may not work.

It’s just too bad Hitzer eliminated wood burning instructions in the manuals for new stove owners just because of epa regulations.

I’ll take that one step further...
Hitzer still offers the 354 with the two door option...each door having an air spinner...and nowhere in the current manuals do they say what those spinners are for or how they can be used and/or for which fuels that might benefit from them, let alone any adjustment details.

I have never had a problem with factory setting on the 254. This is my second Hitzer 254. I get 24 hour burns with coal and 10 to 12 hours with wood. Why would I want to alter factory settings? For me if it ain't broke don't fix it. I use 20-30 pounds a coal a day depending on the weather or load it full of wood 2 times a day. I don't try to over think what Hitzer intend this stove to be.

Yes, my stove burns without the blue flame for the most part. It just has a nice glow to it most of the time. I don't see how a stove can be much easier to run than this. I don't have a problem with it going out or dialing it back in warmer weather. I light it up in the fall and shut it down in the spring.

I wouldn't want the 354 in my house as the 254 is almost to big now. If one could believe the magnetic thermometer on the side, it runs between 250 and 300 degrees all the time.

Good luck getting your stove to preform to your expectations, but really it ain't rocket science.

My stove was used but almost factory new....factory settings had already been monkeyed with though, so you're making assumptions about me trying to fix what isn't broke. Geez...I hate explaining this to new people who haven't researched my posts because I've explained this numerous times on this forum, but I digress...I'll do it again.

I bought this stove for pennies compared to a new one...having never burned a Hitzer or coal...1/2 hour from my house. I knew from the get go the stove was too big. I bought it anyway because of price...getting the opportunity to try coal and a Hitzer without breaking the bank. That's why I have this stove. It's why I've had to learn how to use and why the learning curve was so different from most others with the same stove...most haven't used a stove the totally wrong size for their home. I was told it wouldn't run in my house. I was told it is too big, and I've proved that, yet still proved it can work. If I can impress the stove builder with my numbers from my notes, then I'd say that's not something easily done by the average user.

What you're not taking into consideration with me using a way too big stove with wood is that running by the flap alone the wood will not reach the blackened state without outside interference from me...either by reaching up and opening spinners fully, or opening the ash door...because it doesn't get hot enough if left to run on it's own...the pipe won't even go above 175F unless I crank that dial up...and even then it still doesn't go high enough to get my pipe temps above 275...so the only way to get more range is by the moving the chain.
Think about that. My stove pipe generally runs with coal at around 118F-126F. Bingo! Now you see what someone else already said...it doesn't know what fuel is in it...so it runs the same temp with wood as it did with coal...until I turn the dial up to give it more air that is screaming for. How do I know it is screaming...it's smoking like a freight train. I don't care how low the stove idles once the wood gets to the coaling stage because smoke is virtually burned off by then. I do care how much it smokes before it gets there because I don't want my stove, stove pipe, and chimney a black creosoted up mess. If you run yours that way, fine, but I'm not. I don't even burn my old pre-epa stove that way. I get it hot to burn the smoke off...which means it gets hot enough to go into secondary burn without being a modern stove with secondary air tubes (yes that's possible)...and then my home is 95F inside...and that's why I removed that wood stove.

Again, my Hitzer stove was monkeyed with by the previous user...isn't the same as your set-up. It's easy to assume the stove should work the same for everyone, but that is a trap.

Does your 254 have secondary over-fire air? (Hint: Trick question.)

By the way some of you try to describe wood burning in these stoves it totally negates the often reiterated comment here on these forums: "To burn anthracite, forget everything you know about burning wood".

To burn wood on the same settings as you burn coal means to burn wood the same as coal...and that is fine if you want to burn wood improperly...otherwise wood requires way more air than the stat calls for to reach the coaling stage where most smoke has been burned off.

Most anyone can choke a wood fire down and claim it's burning fine...but at some point there will be a price to be paid...that price is called creosote...and a chimney fire.

Yes, the stoves thermostat doesn't recognize what fuel is in the stove...but everyone knows coal and wood are two entirely different animals...thus why we often tell new coal burners..."forget everything you know about wood burning". We do often say that to new folks don't we?

If they burn the same and on the same settings, then install the stove, leave it on factory settings, and just throw any fuel in there you wish and it'll burn no problem. Turn it up if it's too cold, down if it's too hot. NOT quite that simple!!!

I really don't care about what is proper and what is not. I got the stove to produce heat. It does that well on either coal or wood. Sure wood produces creosote. Whats your point? Clean the chimney every month and move on. It's not a big deal. I will never forget what I know about burning wood, or coal. Put the fuel in, set it, and forget it. I don't understand why you want to make it harder than it is. It is that simple. Sure, for some people there will be a learning curve. Apparently you are one. At 70 years old I have the bugs worked out of anything I want to burn now. I have been heating my homes with wood or coal for a very long time!