Newbie with Hitzer 254... help?

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FOilCompanies
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Location: Ashtabula County / Northeast Ohio
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Post by FOilCompanies » Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 9:42 pm

Got this thing installed professionally in November, brand new stove and chimney. Of course I have no trouble burning wood, but it seems that no matter how closely I follow the suggestions of the people at the stove/coal dealer, I can't make it work the way it's supposed to work with a coal fire (anthracite / nut size).

I can get a mountain of coal blazing as hot as I want, sometimes to the point where the stoveside magnet thermometer reads "overheated". With proper adjustment of the ash pan and rear thermostat baffles, I can regulate the temperature in the 400s if I check it at least every half hour or so. I don't have much trouble maintaining a coal fire when I work it regularly, but I was under the impression that coal doesn't have to be worked regularly once it's blazing. My problems seem to be:

1) When I run the stove overnight, with the rear thermostat set to open the baffle around 400, I will still wake up in the morning and it'll be like 300 with plenty of coal still in the stove. The stuff around the sides will have gone out, less than half of the pile will be glowing orange, and nothing I do will make it blaze up. Open the ash pan door and flue all the way - nothing. (This happens even if I dump the ash pan.) Add coal - nothing, or it will die down even more. Occasionally I can make it blaze up again if I add wood, but I'd rather not do that. Any ideas?

2) If it goes below 400, it tends to be sluggish to gain heat when I open the baffles or the ash pan door. Below 350, it generally won't regain heat and the coal fire will slowly die out. As I understand, that's not supposed to happen. Or am I wrong? (Note that these are "side of the stove" temperature readings. With the thermometer on the stovepipe, it never hit 200. That may be due to the fans I have running to circulate the heat, one of which is a box fan pointed straight at the top of the stove from behind.)

Poking around this forum, I have already noted many people complaining about coal quality this year. I've been getting it from a Lehigh dealer, and some from Tractor Supply. I, too, have noticed that much of the coal in the bags is not "nut" sized, with there being a lot of dust and tiny pieces. I've noticed that the coal is wet inside the bags, but never figured that to be a problem from the mine. (Maybe it is?)

I'm pretty much here because my wife and I are both frustrated with coal after messing with it for two months. Wood doesn't last as long but it's a lot easier to burn. (Truth be told, with the trouble I've had keeping coal fires lit, I'm no longer inclined to believe the common narrative about how the Centralia fire started. Trash falling down a hole, yeah right.) Any pointers on how I can get this stove to the point of being able to "set it and forget it" for at least 12 hours at a time, without having to run it so hot that we can't sleep at night?


 
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Post by Twisted shackle » Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 9:56 pm

Have you tried opening your ash door vent a little? 1/4 inch or less.

 
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Post by FOilCompanies » Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 10:48 pm

Twisted shackle wrote:
Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 9:56 pm
Have you tried opening your ash door vent a little? 1/4 inch or less.
I can't seem to keep it blazing even with the ash pan vent open all the way. Sometimes I have to close it a bit, often down to 1/4 inch, to keep it from overheating. But then the rear baffle should open at the right temperature to give it more air and keep it at the temperature I want. That function works correctly, but somehow I always wake up to a dying fire.

A few days ago I actually logged it all day. I got it blazed up to about 550 (just shy of "overheated"), piled it up to about an inch below the top of the firebrick, and then waited until I saw the temperature rise again after its usual slight drop upon adding coal. When that happened, I closed the ash pan door and got it down to stabilizing around 440. The whole pile was orange and flames a few inches tall were dancing all around the pile.

Yet I woke up in the morning to 190. The pile had only gone down about an inch overnight.

I've literally never woken up to 400. At best it'll be 350, and then I can't get it blazed up again. Opening the ash pan door does nothing, and why would it, when the rear baffle is open? If the extra air coming through the rear opening doesn't get it to flame up enough to maintain temperature, why would more air help?

 
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Post by StokerDon » Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 10:57 pm

Welcome to the forum,

You keep saying "Plie of coal". The coal shouldn't really be in a pile, you should be filling it up to the top of the fire bricks side to side and front to back. Any air that bypasses the coal bed through a thin side layer is going to put the fire out.

How are you controlling the chimney draft? Do you know what the draft is?

-Don

 
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Post by Hoytman » Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 11:28 pm

I can already tell you are fiddling with the stove too much. Freetown Fred will be along shortly with a comment or two about that. :lol: (Inside joke amongst forum friends. :lol: )


What’s your location so we have an idea of current and potential weather?

Is the stove currently running? How much coal is in the stove?

I can already tell you are jacking with the stove to much. Forget fiddling with like when burning wood. In fact, forget about what you know about burning wood in that stove. It doesn’t apply to burning coal. Anthracite nut coal will take some patience on your part.

I could tell you to shut you ash door vents to just a sliver open...like a quarter moon 🌙 on the slots...just a sliver. The reality is, you can completely close the ash vents and still run the stove just fine.

I run the big brother to that stove, the 354. I can try and help you, but we have a member here, Oliver Power, that burns the 254 and he has a real good grasp of how to operate that stove. Hopefully he will see this. I’m sure he’ll be along shortly. If not tonight, then certainly tomorrow.

I can try and help you tonight if you’re still up and need the help.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 11:41 pm

Try and wrap your head around tending that stove every 12 hours...twice a day and near the same time every day, or once every 24 hours. You must be consistent with that to get consistency out of the stove. Expect the stove to fall in temperature some over a 12 hour period and more if you only tend once every 24 hours. Twelve hour cycles are best until you get used to running the stove in nut coal.

Remember this and get it in your head what needs to be done. Use this thread as a guide when you forget so you can come back to it for information.

 
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Post by waytomany?s » Sat. Feb. 12, 2022 6:53 am

I would bet that if you get it "blazing" and the whole bed is orange, you've already burnt half your load and sent the heat up the chimney. You need dancing blue flames on a reload and then adjust your settings to temp desired. Coal on top will still be black.


 
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Post by FOilCompanies » Sat. Feb. 12, 2022 7:49 am

StokerDon wrote:
Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 10:57 pm
Welcome to the forum,

You keep saying "Plie of coal". The coal shouldn't really be in a pile, you should be filling it up to the top of the fire bricks side to side and front to back. Any air that bypasses the coal bed through a thin side layer is going to put the fire out.

How are you controlling the chimney draft? Do you know what the draft is?

-Don
By "pile" I generally mean that it's tall in the back and slopes down toward the door. Naturally I can't pile it up as high in front as I do in back, because it'll avalanche out the door. I do try to keep the sides piled as high as possible so that there are no air holes that don't pass through the pile somehow.

I've messed with the flue control before but it doesn't seem to matter. The guy at the dealership told me that having a draft is important, so lately I've just been keeping the flue wide open. The more the draftier, right? He also said that one of the reasons why I can tend to rejuvenate the fire using some wood is because burning the wood heats the stove up, which increases the draft and helps the coal burn hotter. Makes sense, but what I don't get is why it loses that draft over time.

Also, I don't use the shaker much. Just enough to get the ash out, I stop when I see glowing embers falling.

 
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Other Heating: Wood

Post by FOilCompanies » Sat. Feb. 12, 2022 7:56 am

Hoytman wrote:
Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 11:28 pm
I can already tell you are fiddling with the stove too much. Freetown Fred will be along shortly with a comment or two about that. :lol: (Inside joke amongst forum friends. :lol: )
I would love not to have to fiddle with it so much. Occasionally I do get it to where I can leave it alone for hours at a time. Last night was one such time. I had about a half-height pile going, whole thing was orange (not bright orange, just the entire grate area minus only a tiny bit toward the front left showed orange glow from below), thermometer showed 390. I woke up this morning before the sun was up and the entire fire was stone-cold dead. Plenty of coal in the stove, but none of it was lit.
Hoytman wrote:
Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 11:28 pm
What’s your location so we have an idea of current and potential weather?
Ashtabula County, Ohio. Far northeastern part of the state.
Hoytman wrote:
Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 11:28 pm
Is the stove currently running? How much coal is in the stove?
Nope. Fire died out completely last night. Probably about a 3-inch pile remains, evenly distributed.
Hoytman wrote:
Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 11:28 pm
I can already tell you are jacking with the stove to much. Forget fiddling with like when burning wood. In fact, forget about what you know about burning wood in that stove. It doesn’t apply to burning coal. Anthracite nut coal will take some patience on your part.
I'd love to. But then when I do, the fire goes out.
Hoytman wrote:
Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 11:28 pm
I could tell you to shut you ash door vents to just a sliver open...like a quarter moon 🌙 on the slots...just a sliver. The reality is, you can completely close the ash vents and still run the stove just fine.
Well, if you consider "without fire" to be "just fine"... but I don't believe that my ash pan vents can close completely. At most they'll close down to a hole that you couldn't stick a pencil through, and I have tried operating it like that in times past. Seems like I'm an expert at killing fires.

 
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Post by FOilCompanies » Sat. Feb. 12, 2022 8:01 am

Hoytman wrote:
Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 11:41 pm
Try and wrap your head around tending that stove every 12 hours...twice a day and near the same time every day, or once every 24 hours. You must be consistent with that to get consistency out of the stove. Expect the stove to fall in temperature some over a 12 hour period and more if you only tend once every 24 hours. Twelve hour cycles are best until you get used to running the stove in nut coal.
Ideally what I'd like is for it to run in the 300-350 range. Unless it's extremely cold, which does happen here, 300-350 is perfectly fine for my needs. If it has to fall in temperature during a 12-hour period, I could do starting at 400 and having it drop to 300.

But I can't seem to keep it there. Today I'm going to try to blaze it up quickly and run a high pile at 350 or so, all day, without messing with it once I get there. I'll probably write out a log of this as well, because part of me feels that the coal dealer has a bit of a vested interest in helping me figure this out. After all, if I don't, then I'm going to stop buying coal and just stick with wood.

 
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Post by FOilCompanies » Sat. Feb. 12, 2022 8:02 am

waytomany?s wrote:
Sat. Feb. 12, 2022 6:53 am
I would bet that if you get it "blazing" and the whole bed is orange, you've already burnt half your load and sent the heat up the chimney. You need dancing blue flames on a reload and then adjust your settings to temp desired. Coal on top will still be black.
By "orange" I don't mean "glowing completely orange like the stuff at the bottom of the pile". The stuff on top is still black; "orange" means that that area of the pile is glowing orange from beneath. It contrasts with an area of the pile that has no glow at all and is basically dead.

 
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Post by StokerDon » Sat. Feb. 12, 2022 8:05 am

FOilCompanies wrote:
Sat. Feb. 12, 2022 7:49 am
The guy at the dealership told me that having a draft is important, so lately I've just been keeping the flue wide open.
He's right, when you loose the draft, the fire has nothing to keep it alive. By "flue" you mean the manual pipe damper, right?

I'm not familiar with your stove but it sounds like either your draft is dropping to zero or air inside your stove is finding a way to bypass the coal bed. Do you have a way to measure your draft?

-Don

 
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Post by coalder » Sat. Feb. 12, 2022 8:44 am

Sounds like your stove may be getting ash bound. When you shake & red embers fall into the ash pan look in the ash pan for any shadows, usually around the edges. You may need to use a poker around the edges to break up the ash. I use one daily. a 1/4" rod bent at a 90 deg that, after the stove is revved up, I plunge down from the top & wriggle it around to loosen the ash. Then when I shake the grates clear evenly & not just the center. This insures a complete even burn. Just make sure the stove is going good when you poke it, as it's hard to kill an active fire.
Another good indication of being ash bound is when you shake, the center settles much more than the edges.

Jim

 
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Post by Hoytman » Sat. Feb. 12, 2022 9:32 am

I’m seeing too many red flags in your description.

The top of the coal pile is supposed to be black. Coal burns from the bottom up. Wood from the top down. That is why I said forget about burning wood. This is NOT the same.

Best thing is let it go out. Empty it. Then we can start teaching you from scratch how to burn this stove. It will easily burn at 300 or even way less, but it’s going to depend on you learning a new process and following directions well.


Once you get going correctly that stove will run perfectly and your room temperature will only drop by 2-3 degrees over night.

A “pile” or load of coal should not burn all at once. You don’t want it too because there will be enough heat in that load at once to melt that stove to the ground. Think of it as burning in layers, bottom two inches first, then it begins to burn upward, slowly burning into the next few inches while ashing up beneath until the ash gets thick enough to slow air flow going through the stove...might be twelve hours, might be 24, might be 30 hours...maybe even 34-36 hours before shaking. That all depends on how slow it burns. Typically you will shake every 12 hours, or maybe once every 24 hours once you start learning the stove better. For now, the 12 hour tending is a good starting point. Think about that! A wood fire cannot burn that slow except for in a catalytic wood stove or it will load your stove and chimney with thick creosote.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Sat. Feb. 12, 2022 9:47 am

PM sent with number...OR let us know when you either have the stove completely empty OR just a few inches in the stove. We can start from there. Might be advantageous for me to write the process down for you to follow here. First you need to answer some questions.

-How tall is your chimney?
-Straight up, or how many turns does it make?
-Do you have a pipe damper?
-Is that 254 a blower model or radiant model? Blower model should have a built in damper and rod just above the door. Not sure if I remember if the radiant model has the built in damper or not. I don’t think it does.
-Where is your dial set to on the back of your stove right now?

Your ash door vents should fully close. They all do, or something is wrong. Twist the knob on the ash door. This should loosen or tighten it so yo can open and close it.

Answer these questions...let us know how deep the coal is right now and if it’s burning or out, then we can get you going.

By the way...answering those questions further let’s us know exactly what you ha e going on.

From there any one of these guys can help you get your stove going if I’m not around. Heck, they taught me. :lol:


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