Heating Old Farm House Wth Stone Wall Basement

 
Huf
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Post by Huf » Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 7:08 pm

well there is a register against the wall in that far room - which is farthest from the stove, and it runs under the crawl space to the basement . I was going to use that as a cold air return but I think I need a airline duct fan to really push it through..
There is also another cold air return in bathroom which again is farthest away from stove in basement. But again its a really long run back to the stove . so I again may have to put a inline duct fan in that one to.

..I may test that as I ran into another problem. The chimney in the kitchen that I was going to connect to looks blocked off on the top.

I drilled a brick out and filmed it. What you are looking at is the ceiling..All bricked up!




The chimney is split in 2 down the center and the other side probably is where I would need to go through, but then I have to run the stove pipe a long way in the kitchen to other side of chimney, which will piss off the missus even more.

So maybe I will still give the basement idea one more shot...I need to cut one more register. to make 4 all together (1 in pub room - 1 in hallway - 1 in kitchen and 1 in bedrooms bathroom) and put inline ducts on the 2 cold air returns.

If that still does not work I need to get a chimney guy out here to understand how I can cut that chimney through so I can use it. That will may be later in the year if I go that route.


 
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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Fri. Jan. 28, 2022 10:43 am

I'll add a few things to consider with hot air heat.

1. Air PULLS quite well, but hates to be pushed. Concentrate on good returns and free flowing supply vents

2. Insulate your ductwork. Fiberglass duct board with foil can be cut and fit nicely. Watch some videos for tips.

3. SEAL your ductworks with silver tape (actual tape for ducts, not "duct tape" that loses adhesive when heated)

4. Use a filter and keep it clean. Build a box into the duct work if necessary. You're welcome ;)

5. It takes TIME to heat a house and get a good flow of air going.

When first turning on, the furnace has to heat 59F air and send it to rooms. With good, sealed duct work you will be pulling that room's air to the furnace to add more heat. So as the room heats to 65F, you are now adding heat to that. If you have an open air system, you are always heating the basement air instead of the room's air.

Only so many BTUs get transferred at a time, so increasing the supply air (from return ducts) eventually warms the rooms.

Supply air- try not to go over 120F. Beyond that is a risk to surrounding material at ductwork and registers- carpeting, wood, etc.

If you want heat in the basement, put a register on the plenum/hood that can be closed or opened. Remember, this is stealing heat from the upstairs, so use it sparingly.

A bigger plenum provides a larger thermal buffer for outgoing heat. Duct work should leave near the top.

Supply ducts should all have flappers to adjust and balance.

Corners of ductwork is better as larger boxes, not 90 degrees. Better for managing static pressures.

Maintain clearances between your plenum and ceiling (floor above).

These are all general tips and not everything works in every situation, but may be something in here you can use.

Good luck

 
Huf
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Post by Huf » Fri. Jan. 28, 2022 4:11 pm

Yea..im going do some tests soon. Thanks

 
Huf
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Post by Huf » Sun. Jan. 30, 2022 7:34 pm

Well I have the heat reclaimer hooked up and all the registers cut (besides the one in kitchen), and just need to connect the duct work and run the 2 cold air returns full back to where the stove is (prob have to put 2 inline fans to suck it such a far distance). I also believe I will run a pipe from the front pub room wall to the bedroom that is part of the add on additions to ordinal old farm house - (that is under the crawl space). And put a blower fan in it. That way I can take all that hot heat from Pub room and blow it directly into that bedroom .

Thing is, looks like I am out of time as I have another pressing project that needs done ASAP- so don't think I will be finishing it until a bit later this year. I have a guest house on the hill and the Hot tub will arrive next week . I have to finish the floor in the bathroom and clean everything so I can start getting some BnB Customers and making some sheckles on that.

This project for the Hitzer in the basement - is mostly a backup plan . For now, the 1 30BTU gas stove and the Hutch BMP coal stove heats the house OK. As it has been minus 10 here the last few days I am happy it all works with just those 2 things going. I will update the thread once I get it all done and test the Hitzer in the basement without the gas stove or Hutch BMP coal stove running.

The one good thing I learned this year is how to finally keep that little Hutch BMP parlor stove going. I finally realized to never add on any little piles of coal to it. I need to wait the full 12 hours for the original pail to go down, shake variously and even poke a bit to get all the ashes out- So there is only a layer or 2 of coal on the bottom (just like when I first start it up). I then dump another entire Coal pail in to fill it up to top (about a 20 pounds), and let it run another 12 hours before repeating the process. Occasionally all the ash puts out the bottom layer after shaking so sometimes it is good to throw a layer on top before shaking down, let it light and use that layer for the next batch.

Took me 2 years to figure that out - no manual on that stove from 100 years ago so it is learn by doing it.


Here is where I lined it when I first got it a few years ago- Also notice how I had to run the stove pipe up to the second floor before going into the chimney.



That is because the chimney ends o(bricked up that is) on the celling of the first floor on the inside just like the other chimney in the kitchen...I am still not sure how the stove in the basement actually works with that chimney but it does- It runs upwards and a bit sideways in the basement and smoke is defiantly coming out of the top pf the chimney- Plus the old oil furnace in basement was hooked up to it - that is the only reason I put that Hitzer in the basement since I saw that chimney connection . I lit a fire in the chimney hole and went outside to see the smoke before I bought the Hitzer to hook up.

 
Huf
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Post by Huf » Mon. Jan. 31, 2022 9:30 pm

Well as soon as I get cocky about having the Hutch BMP method down it messes up tonight and fire went out. I think I need to make a little tool from a coat hanger with a L on the end and scrap the ash from the bottom. Anyways , now that the Hutch is out - putting some heat ducts in and will fire up the Hitzer for some tests.

 
Huf
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Post by Huf » Thu. Feb. 03, 2022 2:40 pm

Anyways. the initial tests with just one register hooked up and 2 open air ones (I will hook them up to the ducts later on--plus my 2 cold air returns) seems to be working OK. Although the weather has not gone down to minus 10 yet. Here is how I hooked up a register to the self built heat reclaimer I made. 8 inch pipe around the 6 inch. The other Tee you cannot see in pict has a 200 CFM fan on it but I think I do not even need it as the air rises up hot anyways.
pipe.jpg
.JPG | 261.2KB | pipe.jpg

 
Huf
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Post by Huf » Tue. Feb. 15, 2022 4:07 pm

Well last night was 9 degrees and I managed to hook up 2 more registers and still have the one from the stop pipe heat reclaimer s pointing up at the open register in the pub room to get some very hot air (dont want to mess with it when stove is running),.


It was 70 degrees or more in all rooms besides the bedroom which was 66 to 68. And that is with the gas stove turned off. Hitzer Stove was around 400 degrees (measuring at top right front with laser) and when turned up to 450-500 it was near 75 up stairs - So now I am confident that just heating the 2000 sq ft farm house with just the Hitzer in the basement will work.

I noticed after hooking up the registers they worked far better then just the open registers getting heat from the basement (hotter and more air coming out). This was even without any air blowing through the ducts ..

So I think after I cut the last register in the kitchen to hook up , plus get some inline fan ducts on the cold air returns it will really kick.

I will do that later in the year as that is enough testing for this year (must move on to more projects) . I am going to let the Hitzer coal run out for the year and just use the ole BMP one in pub room on anymore cold days this year.

Thanks again to everyone assisting here! I learned a lot about cold air ducts and pressurized rooms. Another fun winter thanks to coal stoves!


 
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HandFire
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Post by HandFire » Sat. Feb. 19, 2022 8:12 pm

Good deal! Getting your airflow figured out is the key and it seems you found it . You'll find you will not need to use fans most of the time the longer you run the stove as you build a thermal mass. But it's good to have them available to even out comfort level in the lower temps.

 
Huf
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Post by Huf » Sat. Feb. 19, 2022 9:47 pm

Yea I think that thermal mass stuff is key..I defiantly found that is takes 24 hours for the coal stove to heat up house properly. I tested again last few days (with gas stove off so only Hitzer running) - last night it was 26 outside and only 64 degrees in kitchen..Tonight its 15 degrees (and dropping) outside and 73 in kitchen. I ended up putting a 10x12 register in kitchen and just got a inline duct fan for cold air return I am installing tonight.

 
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Post by Huf » Sat. Mar. 12, 2022 10:44 am

reconfigured some things and putting a larger cold air return in tonight for final cold night of the year testing. Will update on results later--

UPDATE: Well I put another cold air return in and even put a fan on it. It is in the teens here and I can get house only to around 66 degrees using only Hitzer in basement with gas stove off -- not too bad considering it is in the teens and wind up here probably is 0 degrees windchill (and it is blowing hard) . If I did not have the living room and bedroom add on additions to the farm house I bet it would heat better. At 30 degrees or higher just using the Hitzer heats the house to about 68 degrees which is fine but when it gets really cold it is not enough Heat or air coming out of the registers.

However, I have a little rinky dink electric furnace that is only HALF hooked up (only 1 50 amp circuit going to it instead of 2), and I also have that hooked into the back of the Big square duct thing I made hanging over the Hitzer. The registers all measure around 80 degrees with just the hitzer running - but when I turn the little furnace on they go to around 95 degrees and the heat really blows out of them (that is my backup plan for now).

Conclusion:

The way this house is hooked up it would be better to just put the hitzer up in the add on living room where the gas stove is now. I could build another little chimney outside that room and hook it up. However, the gas stove is there now , and the Hitzer in the basement with the Gas stove running heats the entire house well even in the negatives degrees. If the gas ever goes I will just build that little chimney and move the Hitzer up stairs. I am sure that will Heat this entire house as the gas stove is only 30k BTU and that nearly does it accept when it gets in the low 20's or below (I been either firing un the Hutch Coal stove in pub room or close curtains to cut half of the house off. but now I just fire up the Hitzer in the basement).


I believe I also could get a Coal/Wood burning furnace with a high CFM blower and put that in the basement. I think that would get the registers up to around 90 degrees or more and the extra CFMS would also help. The way I just have a square duct thing I made hanging over the Hitzer and pulling the heat with little inline duct registers is not enough heat for this big house (but almost). I may do that next year and get a Coal/wood burning furnace (maybe another Hitzer) and use the other Hitzer stove in the basement now the garage. Then I could burn both coal and wood in the basement and have a warm garage when I want to work in it.

Well that does it for me for this year. A real learning experience. Thanks again everybody!

 
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Post by Huf » Tue. Dec. 20, 2022 2:59 pm

This year I ran the one 8 inch cold air return I have all the way to the stove. It has a fan on it to pull the air as it is a long run. I can now keep house a 68 when its in the teens with just the hitzer in the basement.

 
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Post by ShawnLiNy » Tue. Dec. 20, 2022 3:07 pm

Huf wrote:
Tue. Dec. 20, 2022 2:59 pm
This year I ran the one 8 inch cold air return I have all the way to the stove. It has a fan on it to pull the air as it is a long run. I can now keep house a 68 when its in the teens with just the hitzer in the basement.
Not sure if you've tried to partition the stones from main basement air ( cheap painters plastic tacked to ceiling against wall to floor makes a huge difference as that super cooling stone now has 2" air space ) only in areas with no flame source etc

 
Huf
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Post by Huf » Wed. Dec. 21, 2022 12:22 am

ShawnLiNy wrote:
Tue. Dec. 20, 2022 3:07 pm
Not sure if you've tried to partition the stones from main basement air ( cheap painters plastic tacked to ceiling against wall to floor makes a huge difference as that super cooling stone now has 2" air space ) only in areas with no flame source etc
hmmmm...thats a new one for me..will give it a go if I need to.

 
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Post by zachary193 » Wed. Dec. 21, 2022 2:48 am

HandFire wrote:
Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 4:13 pm
For basement heating to work you need to get a large volume of air either by stairwell or floor grate to the floor above. The only way your getting it there is if you have return air back to the basement with drop boxes, not just a hole cut in the floor. That focus needs to be the basement area and floor above. You can help induce this flow by using fans moving cold air but your not going to push effective hot air more than 10ft. Your thinking about this as your stove is an air handler being able to supply a ducted system, NOT going to work this way. Try searching Amish heating and see if you can find pictures showing a house setup. DS has a simple drawing in their paperwork. Think real hard about moving the stove upstairs because it sounds like you were happy at first and that is without the proper air circulation added.
I have my ds energymax set up exactly like that . Stove central on one end , cold air returns on other end of basement no fans .stairwell central to the house . Basement 79-81 degrees upstairs 74-78 depending on outside temps . Works awesome, no electric nothing special.

 
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Post by ColdHouse » Wed. Dec. 21, 2022 6:45 am

HandFire wrote:
Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 4:13 pm
For basement heating to work you need to get a large volume of air either by stairwell or floor grate to the floor above. The only way your getting it there is if you have return air back to the basement with drop boxes, not just a hole cut in the floor. That focus needs to be the basement area and floor above. You can help induce this flow by using fans moving cold air but your not going to push effective hot air more than 10ft. Your thinking about this as your stove is an air handler being able to supply a ducted system, NOT going to work this way. Try searching Amish heating and see if you can find pictures showing a house setup. DS has a simple drawing in their paperwork. Think real hard about moving the stove upstairs because it sounds like you were happy at first and that is without the proper air circulation added.
I am not sure if you actually need return air into the basement. I could be wrong but in my case I have an open stairwell that accommodates the rising warm air but no cold air return and my system is working. Why? My basement is finished. At one very end is a utility room where there is a hybrid water heater and an entry that goes up some stairs and into the cold garage. What I think is happening is the hybrid water heater is making cold air at that end of the basement and the cold air is moving thru the basement and allowing warm air to rise up the open staircase. So there is no return cold air, just colder air at one end of my basement. I sit in a chair at this computer in a doorway and can feel the cold air entering the room with the stove. So here is my theory, have a stove next to the stairs and an uninsulated hatchway basement door at the other with no moving air. Just colder air by the uninsulated door. My guess is the warm air will rise up the stair case like no tomorrow. Turn on an electric stovetop burner on high. Create a 5 cubic yard solid ice cube and put it in the farthest corner of the basement. Would the cold from the ice cube be enough to allow the heat from the stove to move up the stairs?


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