Heating Old Farm House Wth Stone Wall Basement

 
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HandFire
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Post by HandFire » Wed. Jan. 26, 2022 4:29 pm

A nice coal fired range would be an excellent replacement for that modern one sitting I assume right in front of your chimney in the kitchen. Keep that Hitzer in the basement and between the two you would be toasty if we had an ice age. I'm sure your better half wouldn't mind a kitchen remodel and you could kill two birds with one stone cooking and heating with the same appliance. :twisted:


 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Wed. Jan. 26, 2022 4:56 pm

Huf wrote:
Wed. Jan. 26, 2022 3:31 pm
H, the wife looks pretty crafty--I'm bettin she could do some painting on that visible pipe!! :)

Yea I can try a clay thimble with double wall going through it. my double wall that is coming upstairs is not even that hot from the hutch in pub room..I connect though ceiling from stove to ceiling thimble, then to class A chimney pipe through ceiling, then back to double wall to chimney .. I know its not code as you supposed to have class A all the way after going through celing but I have no idea why or how I can do that. I can touch it upstairs and so it is not even that hot. Now just have to convince missus that the pipe is not ugly so she lets me put that stove in that room upstairs...Might have to still figure out more of what i was going to do downstairs unless I can convince the missus...but I am pretty sure that room and area is not going to get hot enough from just registers from basement and the coal stove down there.

So you have a clay thimble like this going through interior wall with stove pipe between it?

https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/c ... 459163.htm

Maybe I will get the 8 inch one and run double wall stove pipe through the wall. Is that what you are doing ?

Update..looks like I need to put brick or whatever around the thimble

https://www.iii.org/article/wood-stove-safety#:~: ... the%20pipe.
"A metal or burned fire-clay thimble must be surrounded by no less than eight inches of brickwork or equivalent fire-resistant material."

 
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Post by Huf » Wed. Jan. 26, 2022 5:26 pm

Already came up with the coal oven idea. Wife shot it down.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Wed. Jan. 26, 2022 9:40 pm

Ya still gonna move the 50-93? I don't really blame her for nixin the cook stove. :)

 
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Post by Huf » Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 10:52 am

Well last night was so cold (-10) that I really know I need to move it upstairs now. The house was 57 in some rooms . Even the room with the gas ventless heater (30k BTU), the far side of room was 59. Only hot room was pub room which was 75 on low setting for the Hutch BMP -1920 coal stove (and the upstairs since over the pubroom). I ended up sleeping up stairs.

With the Hitzer in the room where the ventless heater is in, I am sure I can get it over 80 degrees (prob 90) on a -10 night. Now I gotta drill a pilot hole in chimney and that wall, build a 15x15 inch square brick around the hole in wall and put the thimble in. Then put the stove pipe through and all the other stuff. Moving that thing upstairs is going to be fun.

I put so much work in the downstairs project to. Already built the hood for the ducts and heat reclaimer but I know now there is no way to move the kind of heat I need all the other way to the newer part of the house from the downstairs. If it was just the old farm house the coal stove in basement would of worked, but the add on rooms are under a crawl space that gets really cold so need more then just a register coming out of the floors.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 12:00 pm

H, ya got insulation under the add on's? Yep, I know about movin that 50-93!!!!!!!!!!!! :what:

 
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Post by Huf » Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 12:01 pm

No insulation under crawl space but the insulation under the add ons is on the list of my 100's of projects I have around here.


 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 12:05 pm

I certainly hear that PROJECTS thing--been doin em for 25 yrs here on the hill might be if this old house would stop settlin & heavin!!! LOL Oh well, it's all the Creators stuff!! :)!!!! :)

 
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HandFire
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Post by HandFire » Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 12:31 pm

Huf wrote:
Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 10:52 am
Well last night was so cold (-10) that I really know I need to move it upstairs now.

I put so much work in the downstairs project to. Already built the hood for the ducts and heat reclaimer but I know now there is no way to move the kind of heat I need all the other way to the newer part of the house from the downstairs. If it was just the old farm house the coal stove in basement would of worked, but the add on rooms are under a crawl space that gets really cold so need more then just a register coming out of the floors.
I'd really continue your original project. You'd be surprised how much the airflow is distributed through supplies and RETURNS that being the key point. I have a hood with ductwork and can throw 110-120° air with a backup inline variable speed fan if the temp falls below my comfort zone. Normally above 20° I don't use it especially if the wind isn't too bad. If you want more horsepower for backup ditch those cabinets next to the kitchen range and put a small stove there. You'd have maximum affect for minimal effort. You could idle the thing most likely. Those addition rooms aren't going to warm themselves without some type of fan invovled. Besides all the work you've done and will have to do, cold basements suck and so do cold floors upstairs.

 
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Post by Huf » Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 1:46 pm

I put a 200CFM fan into the duct work with pipe into the hood I built. The heat in the duct work top was around 140 degrees and the heat from open air registers right about the stove was around 75 to 78. However, when I tested the other end of the duct work (where it would be going over the new part of the house which sits on a crawl space), it was only around 70 degrees. So the long run cooled it down. This was in the basement itself with just a open duct to test the distance... was about a 20 or 30 foot run. Now that is not even going into the crawl space yet which the actual room is on. So I cannot see how I can get that other part of house hot enough on these cold days. Plus, there is a 30k BTU vent less heater in that room with a blower, and even that could not heat the room above 60 last night when it was minus 10 out. Usually that is all I need even in the high 20s but not when it gets wicked cold. To be honest that one heater usually is enough for the entire house even in the mid 30's. When only that heater on it is only the front pub room that is cold and I have a curtain that shuts that room off anyways. That is why I have the Hutch BMP coal stove in the pub room. So when I want to go in it on colder days I have that coal stove in there but a little electric heater can also heat that little room.

 
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Post by Huf » Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 2:27 pm

Here is how it looks

Hitzer in basement under duct work
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Standing in kitchen
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looking at pub room (hitzer is under this room in basement). This is still the 1890s house.

Then on other side of kitchen is add on part that is not under the basement. The Hitzer will go into this room
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There is also the main bedroom off this room which is also not part of original house .


Emma loves the pub room most when the Hutch BMP is fired up. But unfortunately that only heats that room and the upstairs

That register is above the stove. Now I will not even use it once i move the stove upstairs
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Post by HandFire » Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 4:13 pm

For basement heating to work you need to get a large volume of air either by stairwell or floor grate to the floor above. The only way your getting it there is if you have return air back to the basement with drop boxes, not just a hole cut in the floor. That focus needs to be the basement area and floor above. You can help induce this flow by using fans moving cold air but your not going to push effective hot air more than 10ft. Your thinking about this as your stove is an air handler being able to supply a ducted system, NOT going to work this way. Try searching Amish heating and see if you can find pictures showing a house setup. DS has a simple drawing in their paperwork. Think real hard about moving the stove upstairs because it sounds like you were happy at first and that is without the proper air circulation added.

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Post by Hoytman » Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 4:46 pm

Sounds to me if the heater works in that room in the 20’s states 30’s and is enough to heat the entire house then that run that is too long for heat should maybe be the cold air return and allow the heat to transfer through the house via natural convection. I’m no heating an air guy by any means and may be all washed up but sounds to like the makings of a nice heat loop to me.

EDIT:
Handfire...good example and diagram. Exactly what I was thinking.

 
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Post by Huf » Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 6:22 pm

If it was the original house I could heat efficiently like that but its not. I have to push air far far away from where stove is in the basement (and under a crawl space for 2 rooms) . When I originally tested I still had the gas heater on, When I tested again without gas heater on it was only 63 degrees...but I did not have full registers in. Again, I tested the duct runs that where still in basement (not hooked up to registers yet--just open pipes in basement) and where the far end needs to go it was only 70 degrees , and I still did not run it under the crawl space to those rooms yet.

There was an old Oil furnace in here before but I am sure that was for the original house build. The guy I bought it off has electric heaters everywhere (in every room) and this terrible electric furnace. It costs me 500 dollars a month when I first moved in and the house was still freezing. I then found I had a gas well and put the ventless gas heaters in but they are sooting up the house and still do not heat well when very cold (in low 20s). I am still going to get a vented gas heater so it does not soot but that will cost 1000 dollars. There is not enough pressure to run anything but a single 30k BTU heater at full volume.
Last edited by Huf on Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Thu. Jan. 27, 2022 6:24 pm

Push the cold air from the furthest point of the house towards the stove.


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