Hitzer 50-93 coal gas

 
craig1980
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Post by craig1980 » Sat. Dec. 25, 2021 9:15 pm

I've owned my hitzer for several years now and i had a few experiences with "mini explosions " when opening the fuel feed door when there is no Flame. Obviously I've learned my lesson but my question is why and what causes the explosion to happen when the fuel door is opened but after a Shakedown and temps drop it takes a while for the back thermostat controlled door to open. Why doesn't a mini explosion happen then isn't it the same principle?


 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Sat. Dec. 25, 2021 9:42 pm

You're WAY over thinkin it C--try just opening the hopper door much slower. Are you keepin your hopper FULL? How often are you tending? AND--stop messin with your bi-metallic, it does what it's supposed to.

 
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Post by craig1980 » Sat. Dec. 25, 2021 10:10 pm

Hey fred. It hasn't happened in a long time. I learned never to open the hopper door unless there is a flame to burn the gases-and yes i opened it as slow as i possibly could. And i dont mess with the thermostat i was just wondering why that never happens when the back door opens after the gas builds up. I usually shake it and fill it once every 12 hours

 
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Post by Hoytman » Sat. Dec. 25, 2021 11:55 pm

Likely for the same reason you open the hopper door slowly. It lets a small amount of air in to mix. So does the stat flap...opens a small amount, so no big rush of air. At least that is what makes sense to me.

 
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Post by waytomany?s » Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 7:58 am

Hoytman wrote:
Sat. Dec. 25, 2021 11:55 pm
Likely for the same reason you open the hopper door slowly. It lets a small amount of air in to mix. So does the stat flap...opens a small amount, so no big rush of air. At least that is what makes sense to me.
That's not what he's asking, Bill. I'm curious as well. Op is asking why when the bimetallic door opens is there no gas flash. I assume it's because air is coming from beneath bed. The flash is from air being introduced above firebird to dilute the gasses to whatever concentration is needed for ignition. But how does ignition occur at that point? Flame coming up through firebed?

 
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Post by Jerrybro » Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 8:22 am

Isn’t the flapper adding primary air below the coal and the hopper adding secondary air above the coal?

 
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Post by freetown fred » Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 8:50 am

J--YES. C, interesting & YES--confusing. If you're keeping the hopper REALLY full at tending ya shouldn't be getting all that much over-fire air--if I remember, ya are using NUT? I was just tryin to touch all bases in prior post.


 
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Post by warminmn » Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 9:10 am

Im pretty sure its cuz the bimetallic lets air in under the fire and its used to keep the coal burning in the fire. Maybe someone else knows for sure.

One thing with this model stove is there is near zero over fire air, unlike many stoves, and it works fine that way.

Small puffs clear out the pipes so arent so bad. Big ones we dont want! I heard mine once when I was outside and it sounded just like a muzzleloader going off coming out the stainless steel chimney.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 9:25 am

waytomany?s wrote:
Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 7:58 am
That's not what he's asking, Bill. I'm curious as well. Op is asking why when the bimetallic door opens is there no gas flash. I assume it's because air is coming from beneath bed. The flash is from air being introduced above firebird to dilute the gasses to whatever concentration is needed for ignition. But how does ignition occur at that point? Flame coming up through firebed?
I was saying it is because the stat flap does NOT open suddenly. In other words, it opens slowly allowing air to mix slowly and prevents the puff.

Mine has puffed hard enough to cause the stat flap to blow open full then swing back closed or near closed.


Actually, that flash can be produced in my 354 hand fed stove by opening my ash pan door open too fast after a reload (if I close it for some reason after reload which Intry not to do).

I have learned that if I need to close it for any reason after a reload and it sits for any length of time to build up gases, then I better crack the ash door slowly.

I have to do the same with the load door if I want to open it. If things have been closed up a few minutes I better open any door slowly and allow gases to mix. When I do that blues will ignite slowly. When I don’t I can create a woof of ignition large enough to cause the stat flap to clang open or larger.

What I was saying was rather than the stat flap open slowly (like they do) if it suddenly jumped all the way open full quickly then it as well would likely create that quick ignition of gases because of the sudden volume of air entering the firebox from anywhere, above or below.

However, the stat flap never opens that way. They open a little at a time slowly, incrementally to whatever the stat calls for. They simply don’t open far enough and fast enough. I was saying if they did, then theoretically they too could allow too much air in too fast...but that won’t happen. They just don’t work that way and it’s part of the beauty and safety of the thermostat itself.

I have found in my hand fed stove that it doesn’t matter if that rush is above or below the fuel load. Too much too quick, after being closed up or after shaking and revving the stove hot enough to ignite unlit coal, then poof. The entire inside of the stove is suddenly blue. I have learned to open doors slowly whatever I am doing with the stove.
Last edited by Hoytman on Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by craig1980 » Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 9:48 am

Several of you guys hit the nail on the head- thanks for all the replies. That's exactly what I'm asking. Sometimes after I shake the ash and close everything up, normally the biometric door is not open as yet. Then I'm holding my breath waiting in anticipation as there is very little flame as yet, but once the door opens and lets air in I've never hear anything pop. The coal ignites and I breathe a sigh of relief LOL. Having air come from the bottom makes alot of sense. Thinking about what was mentioned maybe the gases are pushed up away from the coal flame from the bottom air door and out the chimney, but when the hopper door is opened it forces air down pusing the gas into the flame and igniting it causing the "mini explosion" does this make sense? And yes fred you got a great memory. I run nut coal only. Lehigh at the moment.

 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 10:10 am

I used to purposely induce puff backs for the hell of it.. Here's a little video of my fun lol


 
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Post by Hoytman » Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 10:27 am

Lightning wrote:
Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 10:10 am
I used to purposely induce puff backs for the hell of it.. Here's a little video of my fun lol

You are more brave than me, Lee. LOL!

That thing blew ash right out into your basement. Wow! What a mess that would produce upstairs if that was a stove in the living area. My wife would have a stroke. LOL!

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 10:41 am

Hoytman wrote:
Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 10:27 am
That thing blew ash right out into your basement. Wow! What a mess that would produce upstairs if that was a stove in the living area. My wife would have a stroke. LOL!
Yes, lucky I have a dungeon like basement to play in lol. I got pretty good at predicting when it would flash by watching the pipe and over the load door temps. I would start rolling video about 1 minute before the puff back occurred :lol:

 
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Post by steveleslieg » Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 2:58 pm

and during the summer, I assume you like flying kites in lightning storms

 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 3:24 pm

steveleslieg wrote:
Sun. Dec. 26, 2021 2:58 pm
and during the summer, I assume you like flying kites in lightning storms
No lol, that'd be potentially dangerous :lol:


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