Newbie here...first post...interested in coal

Texican65 · Post by **Texican65** » Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 12:39 pm

Hi guys,

My name is Dow, and I live in WA state, although I'm originally from Texas. I got out of the military up here and decided to stay 15 years ago, and now I'm stuck.

I work for the railroad, and am around coal almost everyday, as we haul it up to Canada for export... from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming. And....there is coal ALL AROUND me up here in WA. I even have an abandoned mine 5 mins behind my house. I've been poking around back there lately, the place has been completely re-taken over by mother nature, but there is coal everywhere. I mean tons...I can fill up as much as I need when-ever...

I've thought about finding a coal stove for use, either in my home or shop...the only trouble is...the coal all around me is subbituminous, with some bituminous further south, and very small pockets of anthracitic up north. There are no active coal mines in this state any longer however, and I'm not sure where I would source a supply.

There is an Amish community in Montana, and Idaho...but I cant seem to locate any coal dealers this far west. I'm wondering how far dealers will ship, and if it's even worth it. I've burned a wood stove up here for the last 15 years...and I love wood heat, but is so messy cleaning my chimney and stove pipe. I've got a 20 ft chase with double walled stainless steel stove pipe...it's sure a chore up on the roof cleaning it. Folks mainly burn soft woods out here, fir, tamarack, poplar, and even well seasoned pine...but I'd sure like to get into some coal instead. If clean coal was readily available....seems like there would be no question.

I guess what I'm interested in finding out is...are there any members on the extreme west coast like myself that source a good clean residential coal from somewhere not too far away? I'd prefer anthracitic, but perhaps there are good sources of bituminous?

The railroads in this area burned subbituminous for eons...and the University of Washington burned bituminous coal from Black Diamond until 1970. We still have one coal fired power plant in Centrailia, but it's slated to be shut down in 2025...such a shame. The Pacific Coast Coal Company is in the process however, of attempting to "re-open" the John Henry Mine out here in Black Diamond, they have filed all the permits they need...but are currently battling with the local govt and regulatory agencies...I hope they can get it going again.

Either way...I'm glad to be here, and am appreciating reading up on and learning about coal as a heat source. Like I said...I've been around it for a long time...just haven't cooked popcorn with my daughter or heated the house with it....but i'd like to.

Thanks,

Dow

Texican65 · Post by **Texican65** » Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 12:46 pm

Here are a few pictures of the coal behind my place.

warminmn · Post by **warminmn** » Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 2:32 pm

A year ago I would have said to have some trucked in but the cost of freight has been crazy, as you likely know because of your job. Unless you could rig up a delivery with your railroad. It can be delivered bagged, usually a ton to a pallet. Or bulk.

personally I'd burn what you have there. I'd love to have access to what you have by you. Lots of people burning Wyoming sub bit for heat. A couple have posted here about it. Maybe search the forum for the word wyoming or words sub bit will give you some pointers.

charlesosborne2002 · Post by **charlesosborne2002** » Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 4:27 pm

Texican65 wrote: ↑
Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 12:39 pm
Hi guys,

My name is Dow, and I live in WA state, although I'm originally from Texas. I got out of the military up here and decided to stay 15 years ago, and now I'm stuck.

I work for the railroad, and am around coal almost everyday, as we haul it up to Canada for export... from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming. And....there is coal ALL AROUND me up here in WA. I even have an abandoned mine 5 mins behind my house. I've been poking around back there lately, the place has been completely re-taken over by mother nature, but there is coal everywhere. I mean tons...I can fill up as much as I need when-ever...

I've thought about finding a coal stove for use, either in my home or shop...the only trouble is...the coal all around me is subbituminous, with some bituminous further south, and very small pockets of anthracitic up north. There are no active coal mines in this state any longer however, and I'm not sure where I would source a supply.

There is an Amish community in Montana, and Idaho...but I cant seem to locate any coal dealers this far west. I'm wondering how far dealers will ship, and if it's even worth it. I've burned a wood stove up here for the last 15 years...and I love wood heat, but is so messy cleaning my chimney and stove pipe. I've got a 20 ft chase with double walled stainless steel stove pipe...it's sure a chore up on the roof cleaning it. Folks mainly burn soft woods out here, fir, tamarack, poplar, and even well seasoned pine...but I'd sure like to get into some coal instead. If clean coal was readily available....seems like there would be no question.

I guess what I'm interested in finding out is...are there any members on the extreme west coast like myself that source a good clean residential coal from somewhere not too far away? I'd prefer anthracitic, but perhaps there are good sources of bituminous?

The railroads in this area burned subbituminous for eons...and the University of Washington burned bituminous coal from Black Diamond until 1970. We still have one coal fired power plant in Centrailia, but it's slated to be shut down in 2025...such a shame. The Pacific Coast Coal Company is in the process however, of attempting to "re-open" the John Henry Mine out here in Black Diamond, they have filed all the permits they need...but are currently battling with the local govt and regulatory agencies...I hope they can get it going again.

Either way...I'm glad to be here, and am appreciating reading up on and learning about coal as a heat source. Like I said...I've been around it for a long time...just haven't cooked popcorn with my daughter or heated the house with it....but i'd like to.

Thanks,

Dow

Welcome!
I think it is important to know what your local coal is--my stove is factory set for bituminous, but removing an adapter plate lets me use anthracite safely. The whole stove could melt or break if I used bituminous now (without putting in the adapter plate), and sub-bit. might be worse. Yours is probably sub-bituminous, which is about half (or less) carbon. Practically all anthracite (90% or more carbon) is in PA, and that is all some (or most) new stoves are made for. The only one called clean is anthracite--very little pollution or soot, etc. Your SS chimney pipe is fine for coal and hardly ever needs cleaning.

We all think you will be happy with coal, especially free.

An airtight stove that can efficiently burn bituminous and anthracite--and wood (like the restored antique stoves that are beloved by all) might be the best bet, but out there they are rare. You would have to learn how to set them. Different fuels each require different settings or controls. There are big outfits online that deal in coal stoves and know all about them. I bought mine online at eBay and delivery was included. Any contractor who is licensed to do fireplaces and wood stoves can do any installation needed. (My home insurance wanted to know if mine was installed by a licensed contractor... some companies won't insure for wood or coal stoves.)

Where I live by the Mississippi River, coal is not available, in any form, but after considerable pursuit I was finally able to convince a nearby (20 miles) Tractor Supply Co store to order me some. The chain carries it in coal country, and it turns out that the right people can get it into their other stores (even Alabama!) at the same chain-wide price, which is now $320 a ton in bags (when not on sale). That is how I buy it, but my store now stocks it all the time with no special order--blacksmiths use it. There are TSC stores all around the Seattle area, maybe not in your area.

There is a whole 'nother site here at Coalpail just for bituminous coal users--they may know more about sub-bituminous.

Texican65 · Post by **Texican65** » Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 5:31 pm

Thanks very much gents! I appreciate the info. I’ll check with TSC about ordering, there is one not too far away…I’m in Maple Valley.

Or…I might just get me a little stove for the garage…and try burning some of this local subbituminous that’s out here behind the house. I’ve heard that it’s very dirty and produces a lot of ash…but we’ll see…I’ll post over in the other topic area and see.

What are some of the more desirable antique stoves?

Thanks,

Dow

freetown fred · Post by **freetown fred** » Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 8:42 pm

Be patient T--quite a few antique fanatics here--ya might even find a reasonable one!! Welcome to the FORUM my friend. Yep, check out TSC--if they don't have any they should be able to get it.

Post by **Richard S.** » Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 9:24 pm

Texican65 wrote: ↑
Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 12:46 pm
Here are a few pictures of the coal behind my place.

I'm no expert on how sub-bit looks but I'm pretty sure those are rocks.

I can only speak for the area I live in but generally speaking you aren't going to find coal just laying around in any quantity, it has value.... The pictures you have would be typical of culm piles here which is the spoilage from the mine and consists of the shale rock they had to mine to get to the coal. It can contain some coal and the older the bank the more coal it will have because smaller sizes like rice which is about the size of pencil eraser was considered waste.

If you look at the second picture that is almost certainly shale. Don't know if this is common but here you can wash it off and sometimes find veins of coal about 1/8 thick +/- running between the layers. It's very easy to spot with anthracite because it's shiny. This is sometimes called bone or boney, it can be burned to some extent as long as you have good fire from pure coal but you are treading a fine line.

Is it heavy? Coal is a very light "rock" and may only be half the density of regular rock. Exactly how much depends on the coal and the rock you are comparing to but If you filled up a five gallon bucket it should weigh about 35 pounds +/-.

Texican65 · Post by **Texican65** » Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 10:20 pm

Thanks for the welcome folks...I appreciate all the insight.

Texican65 · Post by **Texican65** » Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 10:39 pm

Richard S. wrote: ↑
Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 9:24 pm
I'm no expert on how sub-bit looks but I'm pretty sure those are rocks.

I can only speak for the area I live in but generally speaking you aren't going to find coal just laying around in any quantity, it has value.... The pictures you have would be typical of culm piles here which is the spoilage from the mine and consists of the shale rock they had to mine to get to the coal. It can contain some coal and the older the bank the more coal it will have because smaller sizes like rice which is about the size of pencil eraser was considered waste.

If you look at the second picture that is almost certainly shale. Don't know if this is common but here you can wash it off and sometimes find veins of coal about 1/8 thick +/- running between the layers. It's very easy to spot with anthracite because it's shiny. This is sometimes called bone or boney, it can be burned to some extent as long as you have good fire from pure coal but you are treading a fine line.

Is it heavy? Coal is a very light "rock" and may only be half the density of regular rock. Exactly how much depends on the coal and the rock you are comparing to but If you filled up a five gallon bucket it should weigh about 35 pounds +/-.

Thanks for your interest Richard. I'm still learning here...this particular mine near my home was in operation until 1949, I've come to find out...probably because the railroads and steam ships where phasing coal out in favor of diesel fuel...the main reason many little mines like this were even going...it's right near where the abandoned railroad tracks for the Pacific Coast Railway were. There are 50-75 mines in the area...with some that stayed operational until the 1990's.

I bet your right about this being a spoils/tailings pile...but still...there's "a lot" of coal laying around back there in the black berry bushes and stinging nettles...it's been completely over taken by mother nature....it's everywhere...pieces, piles.

Every "rock" in the photos that I am holding up is "paper" light...I could balance them on my pinky finger....if I had those kind of skills. And when I break them apart...they are a shiny black inside. Bear in mind that some of these pieces have been in the elements for 80 years. Whatever it is...I appreciate the insight...as I am just a "noob".
'

Texican65 · Post by **Texican65** » Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 10:42 pm

Here's a couple more pieces...broken up....and some slag.....and a shed!

Post by **Richard S.** » Sun. Sep. 19, 2021 7:53 am

Texican65 wrote: ↑
Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 10:39 pm
...it's been completely over taken by mother nature....it's everywhere...pieces, piles.

Mother nature is always going to do it's thing, locally for whatever reason white birch will always be found on culm. In areas where they have had chance to be there for a hundred years you'll see growth of types of trees. It's certainly not a reclamation but interesting none the less.

freetown fred · Post by **freetown fred** » Sun. Sep. 19, 2021 8:31 am

T---take some home & light it up--if it burns--you got a good stash behind your house--rocks??? I think not. Actualy, I'm hopin ya already did that!!! LOL

warminmn · Post by **warminmn** » Sun. Sep. 19, 2021 9:11 am

I agree with Fred. It might take some experimenting but free is free, gotta try it.

charlesosborne2002 · Post by **charlesosborne2002** » Sun. Sep. 19, 2021 9:26 am

Texican65 wrote: ↑
Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 5:31 pm
Thanks very much gents! I appreciate the info. I’ll check with TSC about ordering, there is one not too far away…I’m in Maple Valley.

Or…I might just get me a little stove for the garage…and try burning some of this local subbituminous that’s out here behind the house. I’ve heard that it’s very dirty and produces a lot of ash…but we’ll see…I’ll post over in the other topic area and see.

What are some of the more desirable antique stoves?

Thanks,

Dow

Here is a Coalpail member, William, explaining in YouTube the operation of his Glenwood stove--a popular antique which he calls the best ever.. Of course there are others (Google antique coal stoves).

This site restores and sells all kinds.

https://barnstablestove.com/parlor.html

Personally I like the Glenwood Modern design--1890 to 1910. It is not as convoluted as the Victorians (it is easier to clean). But there are others I like just as much.

You must be able to control the air intake for different fuels. Most can do this to some extent, but not enough for extreme differences like yours. (Some just say, "Anthracite Only," which is slow burning, and mine would have to be adapted with a special plate to be safe with bituminous.) The reason mine might be a problem is that it has a thermostat on the back (excellent), but the thermostat has a free-moving swinging flap that cannot give a tight control beyond the limit of the opening itself when the draft is strong.

charlesosborne2002 · Post by **charlesosborne2002** » Wed. Sep. 29, 2021 3:51 pm

Texican65 wrote: ↑
Sat. Sep. 18, 2021 10:39 pm
Thanks for your interest Richard. I'm still learning here...this particular mine near my home was in operation until 1949, I've come to find out...probably because the railroads and steam ships where phasing coal out in favor of diesel fuel...the main reason many little mines like this were even going...it's right near where the abandoned railroad tracks for the Pacific Coast Railway were. There are 50-75 mines in the area...with some that stayed operational until the 1990's.

I bet your right about this being a spoils/tailings pile...but still...there's "a lot" of coal laying around back there in the black berry bushes and stinging nettles...it's been completely over taken by mother nature....it's everywhere...pieces, piles.

Every "rock" in the photos that I am holding up is "paper" light...I could balance them on my pinky finger....if I had those kind of skills. And when I break them apart...they are a shiny black inside. Bear in mind that some of these pieces have been in the elements for 80 years. Whatever it is...I appreciate the insight...as I am just a "noob".
'

Bear in mind that some of these pieces have been in the elements for 80 years.

Or 80 million years... it does not have a sell by date.

Newbie here...first post...interested in coal

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