Hitzer 254

 
coalder
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Post by coalder » Sat. Mar. 27, 2021 8:20 pm

H, got a little story for you. Unfortunately for me, been a mason most of my adult life & built/repaired more chimneys than I care to remember. way back when I was a very young man & learning from my uncle Jess he used to tell me " now to be a real good mason, all ya really need is a strong back & a really weak mind. & the way I see it you'll do just fine!!!" Also while learning, uncle Jess would tell me "Jim you mix the mud, carry the blocks, bring the flues up the ladder, strike all the joints & I'll do all the work!! So anyway 40+ years later here we are. Now my chimney is just about same as yours & with my hand fed boiler I can easily hit .15 on the mano with mpd open. Now the last chimney I did & I sincerely hope to God it was the last, was for a friend of my son's in the fall of 19. Joe actually did all the heavy lifting & I kept telling him he put the blocks in the wrong place!! That was till he got too pissed off & stopped bringing me beer. Anyway, his chimney is about 18ft from breach of his K-A 6 stoker boiler to the top with 8 inch flue. Well when we got all done I did an uncle Jess on him to " test the draft". Simply pack some newspaper in the thimble leaving a small hole on top for smoke & touch her off. Well once the paper caught & warmed the chimney, sounded like a jet engine & that chimney spit a paper fireball bout 15 ft above the chimney. Joe confidently looked at me with a grin & said "aught to work just fine". Well next after noon us & a plumber got "the beast" all hooked up & anxiously fired it up. Now with the baro closed I couldn't believe what the draft was .04. It called for .02 so no problem but just was expecting a much higher reading. The only thing that crossed my mind was that stokers might not produce as strong of a draft as a hand fed unit; cause I would of bet on at least double the draft of what was there.
Point being, I'm quite confident that any hand fed unit with just a mpd will be just fine for you as long as your chimney is sound.
And yes uncle Jess must a been right cause I have never been asked to play on Jeopardy.
Cheers
Jim


 
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oliver power
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Post by oliver power » Sat. Mar. 27, 2021 8:38 pm

freetown fred wrote:
Sat. Mar. 27, 2021 3:12 pm
Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Way to simplistic W!! :)
You Tell Him Fred ;) :)

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Sat. Mar. 27, 2021 11:49 pm

coalder wrote:
Sat. Mar. 27, 2021 8:20 pm
way back when I was a very young man & learning from my uncle Jess he used to tell me " now to be a real good mason, all ya really need is a strong back & a really weak mind. & the way I see it you'll do just fine!!!" Also while learning, uncle Jess would tell me "Jim you mix the mud, carry the blocks, bring the flues up the ladder, strike all the joints & I'll do all the work!!
Very funny. good post. Uncle jess should have let you do some of the work.

Why were so many old chimneys built with an offset in the attic?

 
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oliver power
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Post by oliver power » Sun. Mar. 28, 2021 3:24 am

franco b wrote:
Sat. Mar. 27, 2021 11:49 pm
Very funny. good post. Uncle jess should have let you do some of the work.

Why were so many old chimneys built with an offset in the attic?
I've noticed that myself. Always wondered if there was a theory in function, or if it was to fit up through the framing. Like as in build the house, and think about the chimney later. A lot of those type chimneys also started from a wooden frame on the second floor.

 
coalder
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Post by coalder » Sun. Mar. 28, 2021 10:53 am

oliver power wrote:
Sun. Mar. 28, 2021 3:24 am
I've noticed that myself. Always wondered if there was a theory in function, or if it was to fit up through the framing. Like as in build the house, and think about the chimney later. A lot of those type chimneys also started from a wooden frame on the second floor.
Ifn there ever was a theory, it was ill conceived, as it's well documented that chimneys should be vertical as possible. Most likely your idea of build the house & worry about the chimney later.
Jim

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Sun. Mar. 28, 2021 11:23 am

Nice story Coalder!

 
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oliver power
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Post by oliver power » Thu. Apr. 15, 2021 2:52 am

OK, So the post (Hitzer 354 Burning statistics 2020/2021) mentions Hoytman's 354 going out with these warmer temps. About the same time, my 254 went out, and I re-lit the stove to keep dampness out of shop. Well, it went out again. So I fired it up again, knowing I have to play more. Without changing any primary air settings (the same dial and ash pan vent settings all winter), I pulled the built in manual damper rod out half way. So far, so good. Fire is staying lit, with a good healthy bed of coals. One other change I've made is: Every 12 hours, I open the load door, and throw one shovel of coal in the center of the fire box. That's it; No steady shaking is needed. And then shaking is to a minimum. When I emptied the ash pan, it was pure powder. So for now, I'm good, but still playing. Will keep you all up dated.


 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Thu. Apr. 15, 2021 6:26 am

franco b wrote:
Sat. Mar. 27, 2021 11:49 pm

Why were so many old chimneys built with an offset in the attic?
So the chimney can miss the upstairs hallway but still exit through the peak of the roof.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Thu. Apr. 15, 2021 10:59 am

oliver power wrote:
Thu. Apr. 15, 2021 2:52 am
OK, So the post (Hitzer 354 Burning statistics 2020/2021) mentions Hoytman's 354 going out with these warmer temps. About the same time, my 254 went out, and I re-lit the stove to keep dampness out of shop. Well, it went out again. So I fired it up again, knowing I have to play more. Without changing any primary air settings (the same dial and ash pan vent settings all winter), I pulled the built in manual damper rod out half way. So far, so good. Fire is staying lit, with a good healthy bed of coals. One other change I've made is: Every 12 hours, I open the load door, and throw one shovel of coal in the center of the fire box. That's it; No steady shaking is needed. And then shaking is to a minimum. When I emptied the ash pan, it was pure powder. So for now, I'm good, but still playing. Will keep you all up dated.
You just confirmed what I had been saying...that the lower you burn the stove temp the more fine the ash got...as you said, down to fine powder. I was shaking just a little every day and half to two days. I probably should have kept my stove going as well, but my goal was to save coal...plus it was way too hot in the house. Can’t sleep like that.

Interesting what you’re doing.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Thu. Apr. 15, 2021 11:03 am

When you say without playing with dial and ash pan vent settings all winter...well, that part is different for me.

1. My ash pan door is solid.
2. As it warmed up outside the house wasn’t calling for as much heat, so I had been running for a few weeks, I think, on about 2.5 on the dial. Lowest I’ve ever set it to run, if I recall correctly. Normally I run 3-4 on the dial.

 
charlesosborne2002
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Sat. Apr. 17, 2021 6:13 pm

Slickheadhunter wrote:
Mon. Mar. 01, 2021 9:39 pm
At one place I was told 330 a ton, not sure if that delivered or not.
I buy 40 lb bags from Tractor Supply when they have 10% off coupons for "Neighbors." It runs around $6.50 a bag (40 lbs.), so with discount that is around $300 a ton (50 bags). My TSC did not carry it but I put them in touch with one that did and they got it just for me. Now they stock it for a few blacksmiths in the area, so I don't have to worry about getting it. I have about 1000 sq ft (9 ft ceilings) with poor insulation and burn around 3 tons a year--less in mild winter, and I have not had a hard winter yet (3 years). This year I used coal from Christmas to the end of February (gas furnace for the rest). My Vigilant 2 holds 50 lbs nut coal and it takes about 30-40 lbs morning and again at night--less than 2 hods. I like the top loading. The ash tray swings out and lifts with a lid that has a handle. Getting ash out of a burning wood stove was always a hassle, and the Vigilant top is good for cooking--too hot unless you use a trivet under the pans.

 
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Post by oliver power » Sun. May. 02, 2021 10:08 pm

I've had to restart my 254 at least three times during these low low burns. The stove will run on low low with no problem. Here are the issues trying to burn low low in these mild temps. Weak draft, and Damp coal. Igniting fresh coal at tending takes forever. Fire can easily be put out if one gets impatient. I'd say the 30-95 is king for the low low burns. As mentioned; The 30-95 has the hopper for drying / preheating the coal. And with it's single grate, the primary
air is more concentrated. On top of that, the 30-95 is a little less efficient, allowing more heated air to flow up the chimney, making for a better draft.

 
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Sun. May. 02, 2021 11:26 pm

oliver power wrote:
Sun. May. 02, 2021 10:08 pm
I've had to restart my 254 at least three times during these low low burns. The stove will run on low low with no problem. Here are the issues trying to burn low low in these mild temps. Weak draft, and Damp coal. Igniting fresh coal at tending takes forever. Fire can easily be put out if one gets impatient. I'd say the 30-95 is king for the low low burns. As mentioned; The 30-95 has the hopper for drying / preheating the coal. And with it's single grate, the primary
air is more concentrated. On top of that, the 30-95 is a little less efficient, allowing more heated air to flow up the chimney, making for a better draft.
Oliver, you touch upon a tip from my stove's manual--when burning low and slow in warmer weather, open the internal baffle if it has one. The heat goes straight out instead of around the flame paths in the stove. I assume a simple stove has a simple damper that is adjustable, for the same effect.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Mon. May. 03, 2021 12:50 am

oliver power wrote:
Sun. May. 02, 2021 10:08 pm
I've had to restart my 254 at least three times during these low low burns. The stove will run on low low with no problem. Here are the issues trying to burn low low in these mild temps. Weak draft, and Damp coal. Igniting fresh coal at tending takes forever. Fire can easily be put out if one gets impatient. I'd say the 30-95 is king for the low low burns. As mentioned; The 30-95 has the hopper for drying / preheating the coal. And with it's single grate, the primary
air is more concentrated. On top of that, the 30-95 is a little less efficient, allowing more heated air to flow up the chimney, making for a better draft.
Easy enough to fix I suppose, by opening the damper more and wasting some heat up the chimney.

I get what you’re saying about wet coal. I always kept mine in the hod by the stove. That is, I always refilled the hod after filling the stove so that the new coal waiting in the hod had time to dry out. I’m sure you have thought of that as well.

Been a few nights I could have used the coal heat but mostly we must be a lot more warm than you right now.

I can’t recall if your 254 has the built in damper or not. I assume it does because I am thinking you have the blower model like me just in the 254.

Exactly how low have you gotten your 254? Give me some temp readings above the door and on back of the stove right under the stat box if you can. Also your chimney configuration and manometer readings while burning that low if you can.
Last edited by Hoytman on Mon. May. 03, 2021 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Mon. May. 03, 2021 12:53 am

charlesosborne2002 wrote:
Sun. May. 02, 2021 11:26 pm
Oliver, you touch upon a tip from my stove's manual--when burning low and slow in warmer weather, open the internal baffle if it has one. The heat goes straight out instead of around the flame paths in the stove. I assume a simple stove has a simple damper that is adjustable, for the same effect.
Are you running a Hitzer 254 also?

For some reason I was thinking you were running a Harmon/Legacy TLC 2000.


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