Dang I just read the full length of this thread. I have a 503 insert and have always wished it had the bi metal dampener door.
I only shake mine down once a day and add coal then, I also often only use a riddler and knife it down without shaking the grates. Depending on the weather I'll add between a 1/3 to a full bag of coal once a day.
About the simplest installation possible a 6" liner up the chimney to a flue cap on the top and about 6"of stove pipe to mate up to the Hitzer no dampeners or anything.
On warmer days I have even been know to go 36 hours between tending 48 doesn't seem to work well.
Thermostat and flap, weird issue: Cool stove, closed flapper
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Hoytman
- Member
- Posts: 6077
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
- Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
- Coal Size/Type: nut coal
- Other Heating: electric, wood, oil
Riddling is not possible in this situation with full size bricks across the front door lip. It’s shaking or scraping along the sides and back with a poker. That is if riddling is what I think it is...sliding a bar on top of grates between grate and coal to clear ash. That would be ideal.
Some may take a poking tool under the grates to help clear ash, but I don’t have that type of tool yet.
The 503 and 983 grates run north/south. All others, excluding 55/83, run east/west or side-to-side.
Some may take a poking tool under the grates to help clear ash, but I don’t have that type of tool yet.
The 503 and 983 grates run north/south. All others, excluding 55/83, run east/west or side-to-side.
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Hoytman
- Member
- Posts: 6077
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
- Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
- Coal Size/Type: nut coal
- Other Heating: electric, wood, oil
Update for those interested.
Most bags are full of consistently large pieces. Occasionally I’ll get a bag of mixed pieces. Rarely I will get a bag of all small pieces.
So I have zero complaints about the coal size or bagging. I expect some difference at least some. It’s the stat that baffles me.
Stove running at 350-355 this morning and after tending until about 1pm. I let it ride. Pipe damper full open, spinners full closed, dial unchanged.
By 3:30pm stove was almost full black, barely a soft glow. Stove temp dropped to 295...flap was full closed...FULL closed then opened slightly as I was investigating things and beginning to type a post. Had to put the post off because my son got sick. He’s resting now.
Guess what topped off the load this morning? I had suspected this earlier in this thread. Only took about 12 lbs to top things off though. I have my doubts that it will effect the stats sensing temp because temp is temp and it seems to me, regardless of dial setting, it should take the same temp each time to open/close the flapper. I understand smaller pieces slowing the flow of air through the fuel load, but that does not explain such a large temp drop and lag in the stat when at most other times it maintains a 10-15 degree swing on its own.
It’s not like I changed the fuel load out for a full load of pea size coal.
Most bags are full of consistently large pieces. Occasionally I’ll get a bag of mixed pieces. Rarely I will get a bag of all small pieces.
So I have zero complaints about the coal size or bagging. I expect some difference at least some. It’s the stat that baffles me.
By 3:30pm stove was almost full black, barely a soft glow. Stove temp dropped to 295...flap was full closed...FULL closed then opened slightly as I was investigating things and beginning to type a post. Had to put the post off because my son got sick. He’s resting now.
Guess what topped off the load this morning? I had suspected this earlier in this thread. Only took about 12 lbs to top things off though. I have my doubts that it will effect the stats sensing temp because temp is temp and it seems to me, regardless of dial setting, it should take the same temp each time to open/close the flapper. I understand smaller pieces slowing the flow of air through the fuel load, but that does not explain such a large temp drop and lag in the stat when at most other times it maintains a 10-15 degree swing on its own.
It’s not like I changed the fuel load out for a full load of pea size coal.
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ReidH
- Member
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Sat. Dec. 14, 2019 2:12 pm
- Location: Ontario, Canada
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: AGA 47/10 Cooker, Heartland Oval Cookstove
Hi Bill,
I'll start by saying I have no direct experience with a Hitzer stove.
I have read the instruction for your stove and I have questions that you or other may be able to answer.
The instructions indicate that there are 2 drafts. One on the ash door and one on the back of the stove. The one on the ash door is obviously a draft as I can see it in pictures in Hitzer's web site. Is the "draft" on the rear an actual draft, allowing additional air below the grate, or some sort of direct/indirect damper?
Hitzer identifies the flapper control as a temperature regulator.
That terminology would indicate to me that it should provide variable flap opening based on stove temperature. More opening when the stove is cool and less opening when the stove is hotter.
The adjustment knob would be adjusted to settings for lesser minimum and maximum flapper openings for warmer weather (shoulder season temps ) or increase the min and max flap settings for colder weather (winter temps continually below freezing).
Using a thermostat terminology would indicate that the control switches state based on hitting a low temperature limit and reverts when it has reached some few degree temp increase as set by the design of the thermostat.
Now, if the 2 dampers are supposed to be closed during normal operation of the stove, why would the flapper door ever close as it is the only supply of primary air to the fire in that stove state?
In regard to this, I am assuming the dampers are supposed to be closed during normal operation. I could find nothing in the instructions regarding their setting during normal operation. Only that they should be open when starting a fire.
Again there was nothing I saw in the instructions regarding their use when reloading coal. I would think that there would be something regarding this for the non-hopper stoves.
Reid
I'll start by saying I have no direct experience with a Hitzer stove.
I have read the instruction for your stove and I have questions that you or other may be able to answer.
The instructions indicate that there are 2 drafts. One on the ash door and one on the back of the stove. The one on the ash door is obviously a draft as I can see it in pictures in Hitzer's web site. Is the "draft" on the rear an actual draft, allowing additional air below the grate, or some sort of direct/indirect damper?
Hitzer identifies the flapper control as a temperature regulator.
That terminology would indicate to me that it should provide variable flap opening based on stove temperature. More opening when the stove is cool and less opening when the stove is hotter.
The adjustment knob would be adjusted to settings for lesser minimum and maximum flapper openings for warmer weather (shoulder season temps ) or increase the min and max flap settings for colder weather (winter temps continually below freezing).
Using a thermostat terminology would indicate that the control switches state based on hitting a low temperature limit and reverts when it has reached some few degree temp increase as set by the design of the thermostat.
Now, if the 2 dampers are supposed to be closed during normal operation of the stove, why would the flapper door ever close as it is the only supply of primary air to the fire in that stove state?
In regard to this, I am assuming the dampers are supposed to be closed during normal operation. I could find nothing in the instructions regarding their setting during normal operation. Only that they should be open when starting a fire.
Again there was nothing I saw in the instructions regarding their use when reloading coal. I would think that there would be something regarding this for the non-hopper stoves.
Reid
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Hoytman
- Member
- Posts: 6077
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
- Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
- Coal Size/Type: nut coal
- Other Heating: electric, wood, oil
Never have really paid attention to what the manual calls these “drafts”, as you’ve described.
They are most often referred to as primary air intakes. The rear controlled by a bi-metallic thermostat, the primary air on the ash pan door controlled manually. My stove has a solid ash pan door, unlike new versions of the same stove. My stove is also a two door model and each door has a spinner air intake, again manually controlled. These spinner air intakes in each door, according to Dean at Hitzer, are only required when burning wood and not needed when burning anthracite. Some may agree or disagree.
During coal burning if the door spinners are in use it is considered and called secondary air.
For burning wood in my stove the spinners can be used for primary air, secondary air, or both depending whether or not you employ the use of the rear air intake controlled by the bi-metallic thermostat and air flap which serves to allow air under the fire (wood or coal). Under fire air can really eat through wood very fast, so the over fire air from each door spinner is best while keeping rear air intake closed. Anthracite coal prefers under fire air.
What we refer to as actual working “dampers”, serve to slow stove exhaust (draft) as well as to help keep more heat in the stove and keep it from going up the chimney.
Technically though, the rear air intake flap does serve to “damper” the flow of intake air. We just call it primary air.
I’ll defer to someone else to better explain how the bi-metallic coil thermostat works.
I never grew up with anyone ever teaching me much or showing me much. What little I have learned of these stoves, or any wood stove, I’ve tried to learn from my own reading on forums like this one and from my he many informative posts by those willing to share information. I do the best I can. My dad was always working when I was a kid, but I don’t begrudge him if that. I am and have been blessed. Would have been nice to had him around though to teach me about muscle cars and engines and such. My 14 year old knows more than I do because he gets to spend time with my dad who is now retired. I’m just a small town boy who grew up in a small town subdivision who dreamed of farming the land.
Multi-talented guys, like forum member Pauliewog who are good at anything they lay a hand to are the guys I try my best to learn from. There are others here too. Mc Giever’s pretty handy it seems from some of his posts, I just don’t always understand them.
In fact, I am here because of all of the regulars here, there willingness to share info and help people. I have lot to learn about burning coal and this stove.
They are most often referred to as primary air intakes. The rear controlled by a bi-metallic thermostat, the primary air on the ash pan door controlled manually. My stove has a solid ash pan door, unlike new versions of the same stove. My stove is also a two door model and each door has a spinner air intake, again manually controlled. These spinner air intakes in each door, according to Dean at Hitzer, are only required when burning wood and not needed when burning anthracite. Some may agree or disagree.
During coal burning if the door spinners are in use it is considered and called secondary air.
For burning wood in my stove the spinners can be used for primary air, secondary air, or both depending whether or not you employ the use of the rear air intake controlled by the bi-metallic thermostat and air flap which serves to allow air under the fire (wood or coal). Under fire air can really eat through wood very fast, so the over fire air from each door spinner is best while keeping rear air intake closed. Anthracite coal prefers under fire air.
What we refer to as actual working “dampers”, serve to slow stove exhaust (draft) as well as to help keep more heat in the stove and keep it from going up the chimney.
Technically though, the rear air intake flap does serve to “damper” the flow of intake air. We just call it primary air.
I’ll defer to someone else to better explain how the bi-metallic coil thermostat works.
I never grew up with anyone ever teaching me much or showing me much. What little I have learned of these stoves, or any wood stove, I’ve tried to learn from my own reading on forums like this one and from my he many informative posts by those willing to share information. I do the best I can. My dad was always working when I was a kid, but I don’t begrudge him if that. I am and have been blessed. Would have been nice to had him around though to teach me about muscle cars and engines and such. My 14 year old knows more than I do because he gets to spend time with my dad who is now retired. I’m just a small town boy who grew up in a small town subdivision who dreamed of farming the land.
Multi-talented guys, like forum member Pauliewog who are good at anything they lay a hand to are the guys I try my best to learn from. There are others here too. Mc Giever’s pretty handy it seems from some of his posts, I just don’t always understand them.
In fact, I am here because of all of the regulars here, there willingness to share info and help people. I have lot to learn about burning coal and this stove.
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Holdencoal
- Member
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- Joined: Sun. Nov. 17, 2019 2:17 pm
Nut sized coal should drop through 1-1/4” mesh but slide on 3/4” mesh.
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oliver power
- Member
- Posts: 2970
- Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
- Location: Near Dansville, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-2310), D.S. 1600 Circulator, Hitzer 254
Well Hoytman, I think you described your stove, and stove operation quite well.Hoytman wrote: ↑Mon. Feb. 15, 2021 12:19 amNever have really paid attention to what the manual calls these “drafts”, as you’ve described.
They are most often referred to as primary air intakes. The rear controlled by a bi-metallic thermostat, the primary air on the ash pan door controlled manually. My stove has a solid ash pan door, unlike new versions of the same stove. My stove is also a two door model and each door has a spinner air intake, again manually controlled. These spinner air intakes in each door, according to Dean at Hitzer, are only required when burning wood and not needed when burning anthracite. Some may agree or disagree.
During coal burning if the door spinners are in use it is considered and called secondary air.
For burning wood in my stove the spinners can be used for primary air, secondary air, or both depending whether or not you employ the use of the rear air intake controlled by the bi-metallic thermostat and air flap which serves to allow air under the fire (wood or coal). Under fire air can really eat through wood very fast, so the over fire air from each door spinner is best while keeping rear air intake closed. Anthracite coal prefers under fire air.
What we refer to as actual working “dampers”, serve to slow stove exhaust (draft) as well as to help keep more heat in the stove and keep it from going up the chimney.
Technically though, the rear air intake flap does serve to “damper” the flow of intake air. We just call it primary air.
I’ll defer to someone else to better explain how the bi-metallic coil thermostat works.
I never grew up with anyone ever teaching me much or showing me much. What little I have learned of these stoves, or any wood stove, I’ve tried to learn from my own reading on forums like this one and from my he many informative posts by those willing to share information. I do the best I can. My dad was always working when I was a kid, but I don’t begrudge him if that. I am and have been blessed. Would have been nice to had him around though to teach me about muscle cars and engines and such. My 14 year old knows more than I do because he gets to spend time with my dad who is now retired. I’m just a small town boy who grew up in a small town subdivision who dreamed of farming the land.
Multi-talented guys, like forum member Pauliewog who are good at anything they lay a hand to are the guys I try my best to learn from. There are others here too. Mc Giever’s pretty handy it seems from some of his posts, I just don’t always understand them.
In fact, I am here because of all of the regulars here, there willingness to share info and help people. I have lot to learn about burning coal and this stove.