Lost my draft

 
biggerpatterson
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Post by biggerpatterson » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 1:15 pm

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I've had warm weather draft problems with my 30-95. A 2 ft. chimney extension didn't help. As long as it's in the 40's or below I'm ok. Above 50 degrees the draft will stall and off go the co detectors. I've installed a draft inducer for warmer weather use.
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This probably isn't for everyone due to loss of power concerns but in my area, since I installed the house generator in 2005 and the power company redid the local grid the same year, my power has never been off for more than a few seconds. Just in case I have a power failure alarm. It's 42 degrees here in south central pa and my draft is running at .02.
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If it gets warm during the day a flip of a switch keeps the draft steady at .025. It pulls the baro open so I lose some heat but when it's 50 out I really don't care. And the stove will run below 200 degrees so we don't over use the windowstats. I did carefully seal the pipe inside and out above the draft inducer and sealed the thimble connection with fire block foam
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Don't want the pressure side leaking co. Like I said , not for everyone but it solved my problem.


 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 2:59 pm

biggeroatterson,
What is the size of your home?
One or two stories?

What temps you running you stove?
I assume over 400, considering a smaller stove, but I could be wrong.

What size chimney diameter and height? Looks like square clay liner with a metal extension cap?

 
biggerpatterson
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Post by biggerpatterson » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 3:54 pm

900 sq ft 2 story. It's never been cold enough to run the stove at 400. 350 degrees is about all I've ever needed so far. Probably 250-275 most of the time. The # 12 flirt antique that this replaced would run at 400+ if we got caught in a polar vortex like a few years ago. It doesn't get that cold that often here in south central Pa. I'm only a mile from the Maryland border. 8 inch clay lined chimney . With the pipe to the grate it would be about 19 ft.

 
coalder
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Post by coalder » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 4:19 pm

BP, by any chance have you followed this thread? The OP had the exact same problem. His issue was a missing cement chimney cap. Which allowed rain into the chimney which froze & cracked flues & mortar joints. The cracked flues were allowing cold air to be drawn into the chimney, which conflicted with the warm flue gasses which severely inhibited the draft. Any chance that this could be the problem? Because it sure sounds like your chimney is getting air from someplace it shouldn't. All other things considered, that chimney, in good working order, should work just fine.
Jim

 
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Post by biggerpatterson » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 5:16 pm

That could very well be my problem. How would you tell? Stainless liner and see if that solves the problem ? I'm too old to install it. Not getting me up on the roof. I wonder what that would cost ? The draft inducer was$113 delivered. I kind of wish now I'd have spent the extra money for the variable speed one just to cut down on fan noise. I redid the stove pipe with with what was already in use ,cut it in and wired it up. Flip the switch, instant,constant draft. Problem solved. If it's cold enough to run the stove hot it's not needed . As I said , this is not for everyone. With a power failure alarm and a natural gas powered back up generator I think I'll be ok

 
Hoytman
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Post by Hoytman » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 5:55 pm

The difference here, a couple actually, is a 7” stove top outlet and a 6” stove top outlet going into even larger chimney’s.

Blackbeatty with a bigger stove and 7” outlet, and Patterson with the smaller stove and 6” outlet...both on 8”x8” clay. I’m running a 7” outlet with the 344 and also have the same type chimney...only 10ft to top from thimble. My chimney total from firebox floor to top is just shy of 15ft.

The problems you two are having has give me an indication of what may happen when I add two lengths of clay liner.

I’m not so sure height is the issue as is the miner sizes for you both. Not enough heat going up those tall and big chimney’s. Tells me when I add my two temporary lengths of clay that the chimney will get cooler and quite possibly stall my own draft or close to it. Which means we all three need a liner to go taller or be at the height you are. I’m going to climb up on the roof in the morning and take the IR gun with me. Blackbeatty, dollar to a donut my shorter 8”x8” clay is warmer than what you reported earlier. If it is I may not need to add any length at all. My chimney should be warmer as it is an inside the home masonry chimney.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 6:00 pm

With the cool exhaust temps of coal stoves, compared to wood stoves, it seems the taller you get with 8”x8” clay you need more heat going up in order to warm things up, thus why BB’s baro is working to help his issues. Seems adding length only, without also matching the stove outlet, could work against your draft and actually cool it. Me just thinking out loud.


 
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Post by coalder » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 6:15 pm

biggerpatterson wrote:
Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 5:16 pm
That could very well be my problem. How would you tell? Stainless liner and see if that solves the problem ? I'm too old to install it. Not getting me up on the roof. I wonder what that would cost ? The draft inducer was$113 delivered. I kind of wish now I'd have spent the extra money for the variable speed one just to cut down on fan noise. I redid the stove pipe with with what was already in use ,cut it in and wired it up. Flip the switch, instant,constant draft. Problem solved. If it's cold enough to run the stove hot it's not needed . As I said , this is not for everyone. With a power failure alarm and a natural gas powered back up generator I think I'll be ok
Well, another thing that caught my eye was the molding of sorts around the top of your chimney. Never saw the likes of it before. Possibly to trim off a SS replacement cap??
You would need someone to inspect the masonry cap & flues. If the cement cap is cracked along with some flues; there-in the problem lies. If they are OK then check for a leaking clean out door. Sometimes just replacing a porous cap is enough to seal up a chimney. But would really be best to have someone qualified to take a good look. If for no other reason peace of mind & personal safety. Good luck;
Jim

 
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Post by biggerpatterson » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 7:02 pm

I put the 2 ft. stainless extension and trim on my self. the top wasn't cracked. I never planned on going up again so I bent a trim piece out of aluminum and fitted it around the extension.Sealed with 25 year silicone so I'll be long gone before it ever leaks. The clean out door hinges rusted over time and I replaced the door with a metal plate and anchor bolts with a gasket

 
coalder
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Post by coalder » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 7:36 pm

biggerpatterson wrote:
Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 7:02 pm
I put the 2 ft. stainless extension and trim on my self. the top wasn't cracked. I never planned on going up again so I bent a trim piece out of aluminum and fitted it around the extension.Sealed with 25 year silicone so I'll be long gone before it ever leaks. The clean out door hinges rusted over time and I replaced the door with a metal plate and anchor bolts with a gasket
Well certainly sounds like your chimney is pretty tight. Just can't figure why you need the draft inducer??? Chimney seems plenty high.
Did you always need the inducer? Or did the chimney work fine for a while & then you had to add it? This is a tough one to figure
especially w/o being able to see it.
Jim

 
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Post by biggerpatterson » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 8:58 pm

I've only needed the draft inducer for the 30-95. No problems with the Godin, Baker wood and coal or the Flirt # 12 I've used ..And only when it gets warmer outside. It's 38* outside now . The stove is at 265* and the draft is .02 .If it were to warm up overnight to close to 50*, The draft would stall and the co detectors would go off. The draft inducer solves that problem with the flip of a switch.

 
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Post by Lightning » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 10:27 pm

biggerpatterson wrote:
Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 8:58 pm
No problems with the Godin, Baker wood and coal or the Flirt # 12 I've used
And I'm willing to bet all of those had leakage above the fire or intentional secondary air.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 10:54 pm

Lightning wrote:
Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 10:27 pm
And I'm willing to bet all of those had leakage above the fire or intentional secondary air.
How many were, like the 30-95, rear outlet? I would think these would tend to hold more heat in the stove than top outlet. Maybe not.

 
coalder
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Post by coalder » Sun. Jan. 10, 2021 8:06 am

Lightning wrote:
Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 10:27 pm
And I'm willing to bet all of those had leakage above the fire or intentional secondary air.
Lee, I was thinking the exact same thing before I saw your post. Secondary air, or in this case the lack there-of,
has to be the major contributing factor. Given the other stoves worked just fine.
PS: When ya start designing that new coal stove, give me a shout!!! :yes:
Jim

 
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Post by BlackBetty06 » Sun. Jan. 10, 2021 4:34 pm

Lightning wrote:
Sat. Jan. 09, 2021 10:27 pm
And I'm willing to bet all of those had leakage above the fire or intentional secondary air.
Ah yes, so I am not the only one that needs secondary air on the stove!!

Hoyt one thing I noticed and maybe a typo. The 50-93 is actually a 6” rear outlet only, Not a 7” inch top outlet like the 354. I have no idea why the 354 is a 7”, Even the big Harman SF250 is a 6” pipe.....


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