Lost my draft

I think the 354 is setup for bituminous.

BlackBetty06 wrote: ↑

Sun. Jan. 10, 2021 4:34 pm

Ah yes, so I am not the only one that needs secondary air on the stove!!

Hoyt one thing I noticed and maybe a typo. The 50-93 is actually a 6” rear outlet only, Not a 7” inch top outlet like the 354. I have no idea why the 354 is a 7”, Even the big Harman SF250 is a 6” pipe.....

Nope, not a typo and I stand corrected. The 50-93 is a 6” as you stated.

I guess the 354 and the 82UL are the only stoves with 7” outlets.

Update...... We are in an air quality alert here in the armpit of Pennsylvania. Its hot for this time of year and the air is completely still resulting in a nice haze, something you would equate to a 95 degree humid summer day.

It was in the low 50s today with still winds as mentioned above. Draft heald steady. Never dropped below -.02 that I could see. AND for extra fun, I have probably an 70/30 pea/nut coal mix in the stove right now. So hot outside, still air, and small coal in the stove. I would say things are looking up at the moment.

Nice B---interesting weather indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's baffling that a little bit of room air into the pipe has seemed to have solve the problem. I think that's pretty awesome. It'll be interesting to see if you can still idle it thru even warmer days. I used to idle my hand fed furnace thru 70 degree days towards the end of the heating season. A little air from the around the baro door wasn't enough.. I had to use big amounts of secondary air. 2 - 1.5 inch diameter holes wide open right at the top of the fuel bed.

Yes its baffling that adding air at the stove pipe would improve the draft.
I can see secondary air at the fuel face assisting the draft for a couple of reasons.

Is the barometric (check) damper replacing a MPD or used in conjunction?

Reid

I suspect that the chimney has now dried out and is staying warmer. I remember that post with condensate in the chimney very apparent.

Lightning wrote: ↑

Thu. Jan. 14, 2021 10:01 pm

It's baffling that a little bit of room air into the pipe has seemed to have solve the problem. I think that's pretty awesome. It'll be interesting to see if you can still idle it thru even warmer days. I used to idle my hand fed furnace thru 70 degree days towards the end of the heating season. A little air from the around the baro door wasn't enough.. I had to use big amounts of secondary air. 2 - 1.5 inch diameter holes wide open right at the top of the fuel bed.

It appears it has helped just enough to keep the wolves away. The baro addition plus removing a portion of door gasket might even keep them further away when days are warmer. I guess the baro will still do it's normal task of keeping it tame on windy days. If adjustment for both weather conditions are close to the same. With door gasket removed, it would certainly be needed.

A dry warmer chimney makes sense.

I assume the chimney flue is 8 inches square? If yes, it is a bit oversize to the stove makers maximum flue size for an outside chimney.

Raising the chimney & sealing around the flue at the top had a whole lot more to due with improving the draft than anything else.
Jim

Lightning wrote: ↑

Thu. Jan. 14, 2021 10:01 pm

It's baffling that a little bit of room air into the pipe has seemed to have solve the problem. I think that's pretty awesome. It'll be interesting to see if you can still idle it thru even warmer days. I used to idle my hand fed furnace thru 70 degree days towards the end of the heating season. A little air from the around the baro door wasn't enough.. I had to use big amounts of secondary air. 2 - 1.5 inch diameter holes wide open right at the top of the fuel bed.

My 50-93 has idled through a number of Spring 70* days. One day was closer to 80*. At that time of year (late April/May) the baro is out & the tee capped so only the MPD. I went from a so-so draft with my old woodstove to more draft then I need with the Hitzer when I replaced the old 6" uninsulated liner with a coal rated insulated liner. I was surprised that it made that much difference in a chimney going up through the center of the house.

Thank you Coalder & John B--this is not rocket science like some try to make it out to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Waitin for updates B.

Latest report. Back to mild conditions from hot conditions (low 40s daytime low 30s night). To answer Reid, yes I pulled the manual pipe damper out that I never used anyway and replaced it with the barometric damper. (The MPD was not closed accidentally I promise). So we got a good rainstorm the other day and I was up poking around in the attic trying to find something amongst the junk, and low and behold I see water litterally dripping off my chimney. WTF i says! Draft never dropped below -.03 during this event. Rain stopped and I crawl up on the roof with the trusty caulk gun. (Mason leery of pointing chimney in the cold). I squirt clear RTV into every nook, cranny, and crevice that looks like it could accept caulk. Two days later it rains like the devil again. This time, chimney inside is bone dry. Not a drop of water to be seen and no dampness anywhere. Good solved that temporarily. (Could this have been a major part of this all along? Probably, as most times I had issues it was raining or damp out). Back to the junk in the attic. I decided I needed more space to approriately distribute the junk in the attic, so yesterday Im up in there laying down plywood in the attic section above my porch if you recall the pictures of my chimney earlier in the thread. Well how about that, In the areas where the terracotta was spalled a bit, there are dark stains on the bricks. Looks as though the thourough flushing the chimney got from the leaks mentioned above must have washed some dirt out and into my brick staining them a darker color. I think I may install a liner just to be safe even though Id rather not waste the cash since the chimney is now performing properly. Also as someone mentioned. The outer clay liner is 8x8, the inner clay liner is 7x7 for a total of 49 sq in which is acceptable for an exterior chimney according to hitzer. Also, a lot of the condensation I was getting before could be the from when the bi metallic door would shut the movement of flue gases would all but stop, even with the ash pan door vents open a good bit. Now that there is a consistent trickle of air through the flue at all times via the barometric damper and the rain isnt getting in, there is no more white plume out the chimney. It looks like a proper anthracite chimney now which is no sign of life on the other end!!

I forget who posted it but way back in this thread sombody posted an article done by engineers in Canada regarding draft loss in a chimney. The moral of the story was, the closer the average temperature in the chimney got to the outside ambient the weaker the draft would get until it stalled.

So by my bimetallic being closed and ash door vents not doing a whole lot, the flue gases were hanging out in my chimney too long and becoming close to the outside ambient on warmer days, this compounded by moisture is what was stalling my draft. So with the indroduction of some slow steady, 85 ish degree air right by the coal stove where the baro is drawing from, my average chimney temperature is staying warmer than outside, hence no loss of draft. This is my theory anyway. I thing I should be good until 70 or so outside at this point because thats still 15 degrees cooler than what is being introduced into the chimney. We shall see

That's interesting. I'll need a warm day to try the stove without the draft inducer. Now that the baro is reinstalled maybe things have changed. After all the problems last year, when it headed toward 50*, I turned the draft inducer on. Better safe than sorry . I never checked the draft again when it got warmer without using it. It's 42* outside now and the draft is at.02 . Might be a little while till it hits 50* again. We'll see.