Changed Stoves

 
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JMHudsonValley
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Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey 92
Coal Size/Type: Pea Coal
Other Heating: Hand Fed Chubby Coal - Nut Coal

Post by JMHudsonValley » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 11:38 am

Good Afternoon!

I am looking for some advice - I have recently started burning Nut Coal in a stove thats similar to the Chubby Coal Stove. It was manufactured by Lake Region Stove Works Inc., the link is https://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/68/details/2551 ... 25517.html . I had a MPD and I had mastered the stove in about a months time.

The current setup is the flue feeds into a masonry chimney, which is 10"x10", and with the above listed stove I had no issues starting a fire with wood then controlling the fire with the nut coal. I was having to tend to the stove 2-3 times a day but the shaker was broken on it so when I had to clean the ashes it was an absolute mess everywhere.

A few friends of mine rave about the Saey 92 Hanover 1, so I had found a great deal out in Lancaster, PA and went and purchased it. I installed it Sunday night with a MPD and I cannot get it to light well at all. The most I get a light smolder of coals which burns out in about an hour. The gentleman I purchased it from had given me a barometric damper but I didn't install it because I didn't think I needed it based off of my previous stove. I am using Pea Coal so I am not sure if that has anything to do with it, or if I can burn nut coal in the Saey. I also have the thermostatic control open all of the way.

Would installing the barometric damper possibly help with the issue I am having with the Saey? With my previous stove I was able to get the chimney nice and hot and have minimal draft issues. It appears the complete opposite here.

Sorry for the long post - I just wanted to provide as much information as I can.

Thanks for any help!

I'm located in the Tri-State NY Area.


 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 12:14 pm

There's people on here familiar with the SAEY stoves--be patient my friend!! Welcome to the FORUM!! :)

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 12:26 pm

It certainly seems like a draft issue. Lower stack temperature equals lower draft. The stove configuration is not as easy drafting as the old stove.

Switch to nut coal with no dampers and run an eight inch bed depth. Start with a good hot wood fire.

 
KingCoal
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Post by KingCoal » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 12:40 pm

franco b wrote:
Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 12:26 pm


Switch to nut coal with no dampers and run an eight inch bed depth. Start with a good hot wood fire.

x's 2

 
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Sunny Boy
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Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 1:03 pm

The 92 manual says pea of nut sized coal. Guys don't like to hear this,.... but size does matter. :D

Your chimney system may not produce a strong enough draft to work well with pea sized coal. With it's smaller air spaces between chunks, pea coal has more resistance/restriction to air flow up through the firebed than nut coal has.

As Franco recommended, try the easier breathing nut sized coal. At least to get the stove going until you have a well established firebed that has the chimney system heated and drafting well. Then you can try mixing in the pea with nut coal, or if the draft is strong enough transitioning to just pea coal after about an hour. But expect that you may need to use a bit more primary air damper opening to keep the pea coal burning as well as it does with the nut coal.

Not sure how your starting, but many of us with windows in the stove doors use Match light, or BBQ charcoal soaked with kerosene to get a very hot firebed and a strong draft going quickly. Then, after about 10-15 minutes start add layers of coal to that. Charcoal is much less likely to soot up the door glass than using wood to start off with.

And a baro will not help a weak drafting stove. Even when closed they leak and will only make the draft weaker by leaking air into the chimney system after the firebed, which cools the exhaust flow and lowers the draft strength. That's just the opposite of what you want when your having weak draft problems causing the fire slowly go out. The baro is good at controlling when the chimney system has too much draft strength.

If you ever do get the stove working well and decide to use a baro, keep in mind that it must be closed off whenever starting or refueling a firebed or it will make that process take much longer than it should. Some use aluminum foil to temporarily cover the baro during starting and refueling.

Paul

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 1:13 pm

Soooo, my point is--WHY BOTHER???????????????????????????? :)

 
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JMHudsonValley
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey 92
Coal Size/Type: Pea Coal
Other Heating: Hand Fed Chubby Coal - Nut Coal

Post by JMHudsonValley » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 1:28 pm

I dont disagree - I am all about the easier route and making it work. Part of me is thinking I should just get my chubby stove fixed!


 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 1:38 pm

I should think switching coal size would be the easier route, as opposed to fixing and then switching stoves. You may just find out why your friends highly recommended that Saey 92 stove ????

Paul

 
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JMHudsonValley
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey 92
Coal Size/Type: Pea Coal
Other Heating: Hand Fed Chubby Coal - Nut Coal

Post by JMHudsonValley » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 1:44 pm

Right - I am going to go and grab a few bags of nut coal and give that a chance to see if it will help heat it up enough and promote better airflow. I know when I was using my previous stove I had to really get the flue hot for 45 minutes to an hour before I could reliably burn coal.

I appreciate everyone taking time to offer advice. I have only been burning coal for a few months and I couldn't be happier with it.

It came recommended because they were saying they filled the hopper once a day and cleaned ashes once a day - which was better then me having to clean ashes 2-3 times a day and loading it just as often. I have a 1-year old so any opportunity I can get to try to be as clean as possible is worth it to me; however I wasn't anticipating this issue I am currently having!!

 
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Sunny Boy
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
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Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 3:42 pm

45 to 60 minutes heating to be able to burn coal is a very long time. That's longer than it takes me to start my kitchen coal range and have a firebed filled with burning coal, ready to set the dampers for cruising speed. And my base heater at twice the Range's coal capacity takes about an hour to start, fill up by layering coal, and be ready to set dampers.

The problem may not be your stoves.

1. How tall is your chimney ? It may not be the stoves or coal, but a chimney that's ok with wood, but not tall enough to do well with coal ???? Wood fires will draft well in chimney systems that are too short to do as well with coal.

2. Are there any pipe leaks between the stove and chimney connection ? Any air leaking in after the firebed will reduce draft strength.

3. Is there a chimney cleanout door that might not be sealing well ? Same as air leaks into the stove pipe, kills drafting ability of the chimney system !!!!!!

 
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JMHudsonValley
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Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey 92
Coal Size/Type: Pea Coal
Other Heating: Hand Fed Chubby Coal - Nut Coal

Post by JMHudsonValley » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 4:17 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 3:42 pm
45 to 60 minutes heating to be able to burn coal is a very long time. That's longer than it takes me to start my kitchen coal range and have a firebed filled with burning coal, ready to set the dampers for cruising speed. And my base heater at twice the Range's coal capacity takes about an hour to start, fill up by layering coal, and be ready to set dampers.

The problem may not be your stoves.

1. How tall is your chimney ? It may not be the stoves or coal, but a chimney that's ok with wood, but not tall enough to do well with coal ???? Wood fires will draft well in chimney systems that are too short to do as well with coal.

2. Are there any pipe leaks between the stove and chimney connection ? Any air leaking in after the firebed will reduce draft strength.

3. Is there a chimney cleanout door that might not be sealing well ? Same as air leaks into the stove pipe, kills drafting ability of the chimney system !!!!!!
1. It is a 30 foot chimney which has a clean-out on the exterior at ground level. My Stove is inside my living room on the second floor; which is 12 feet up. My attached garage is under my living room. The Chimney extends the remaining 18 feet from the second floor. I can provide pictures if necessary.

2. I bought new pipes and connected everything secure. No issues with smoke getting out anywhere when I was burning anything

3. I will have to look at the cleanout door on the outside and see how loose it is.

- Part of the reason it could take 45 minutes to 60 minutes could be because I am a rookie as well. I don't have much experience except a few weeks this winter so I may be creating a fire-bed which is overkill for whats actually needed.

I grew up in a city with Natural Gas so it has been a learning experience trying to use alternative fuel since we purchased our house 4 years ago so I know that contributes too.. Lol.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 4:45 pm

We've all gone through it J. Sooooo, don't feel like the Lone Stranger--one thing to keep in mind---the only stupid questions are the ones we don't ask!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Tue. Feb. 25, 2020 4:56 pm

If the outside clean-out has any leaks at all...
They need to be sealed...
Pictures of the clean-out door will be helpful...

 
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JMHudsonValley
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Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey 92
Coal Size/Type: Pea Coal
Other Heating: Hand Fed Chubby Coal - Nut Coal

Post by JMHudsonValley » Wed. Feb. 26, 2020 9:42 am

Update!

I was reading these forums for hours last night and I looked at my stove again and noticed I installed the sides of the firebox incorrectly. I had them backwards so the air was flowing up the sides of the coal instead of through it :o :oops: . I changed them around and I got an okay bed of coals last night, an orange base with light blue flames. I loaded up the box, poked a couple holes and laid a 7-8 inch bed of coal and closed it up around 10:30PM.

I woke up this morning and it was still going but its not putting off much heat. The stove top wasn't getting any warmer then 175 degrees at best so it was barely warming the room it was in. I cleaned out the ashes this morning and put another layer of coal on top before I left for work - I'm hoping it's still going when I get home.

I may be misinformed on the size of the flue in my chimney - I am going to go on the roof and measure it tonight. The exterior of the chimney measures 17"x18" so it could be larger then the 10"x10" that I thought. My stove connects to the chimney with a masonry thimble that expands to 8". The clean-out door is closed but I noticed around the exterior of it that the caulk has broken away so I will be sealing that up.

It is also averaging high 30's and low 40's currently here so I do not know how much of an impact that's going to have with trying to burn. With my prior stove it was non-issue but I understand I am learning with a new stove.

 
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coalder
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Post by coalder » Wed. Feb. 26, 2020 10:07 am

JM, what you seem to be describing is a typical chimney with an 8" x 8" ID flue tile. Now if you have about 14 to 16 ft of chimney, from the breach of the stove, it's NOT the chimney. Air is somehow bypassing the coal bed. I would start with the dollar bill test on your gaskets to insure there are no door leaks. & I would double check the coal bed to insure there is no way air can get around it. Good luck.
Jim


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