Barometric damper and blower fan question

Post Reply
 
k0218
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat. Jan. 18, 2020 2:38 pm

Post by k0218 » Sat. Jan. 18, 2020 2:49 pm

Hi everyone--I have tried searching the site to see if I can find information on my question, without much luck. Maybe I am not typing in the right keys words or something, but I thought I would post to see if anyone can help me out.

I have a Firepower Coal/Wood furnace with a Honeywell blower fan (which can be toggled on and off) on the front between the loading door and ash clean out door. I typically leave it in the on position, and it kicks on an off as needed throughout the day and night. I recently had some issues (that I believe were wither coal gas or draft related) which blew out 2 pipes and kicked open my chimney clean out door. Since those incidents, I installed a barometric damper into my new pipe. My question is, now that I have the barometric damper installed, do I still keep the blower fan on the front turned on and the sliding damper above the loading door slightly open? Or is that going to cause my fire to burn up faster?

Thanks!

 
User avatar
coaledsweat
Site Moderator
Posts: 13763
Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Location: Guilford, Connecticut
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Post by coaledsweat » Sat. Jan. 18, 2020 4:19 pm

You need a manometer to know what your draft is and then set it what the manufacturer recommends. The baro should reduce fuel consumption if you had a high draft prior to installing it. If you had a weak draft, it won't do much unless it gets windy. But you really should know what your draft is with or without a baro. It's important.

 
franco b
Site Moderator
Posts: 11416
Joined: Wed. Nov. 05, 2008 5:11 pm
Location: Kent CT
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Post by franco b » Sat. Jan. 18, 2020 5:50 pm

That seems like a combustion blower. If so I would turn it on after a new load to make sure the load is well lit and gasses burnt off for the most part. Leave the damper open and let the baro control draft.

Get the manometer to set the baro and be sure to have a CO detector.

 
User avatar
oliver power
Member
Posts: 2970
Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
Location: Near Dansville, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-2310), D.S. 1600 Circulator, Hitzer 254

Post by oliver power » Sat. Jan. 18, 2020 9:16 pm

I'm not familiar with your furnace. However; If anything, the over fire air slows the burn rate with coal..... It also dilutes coal gasses. taking them up the chimney. Should you have a KABOOM!!!, it won't be as powerful, as gasses are diluted, and taken up the chimney. One more thing; Is your chimney, or chimney pipe restricted / plugged. If so, that would also block / restrict gasses from going up the chimney. When burning wood, cover the barometric damper with aluminum foil. The added air will feed a chimney fire...


 
k0218
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat. Jan. 18, 2020 2:38 pm

Post by k0218 » Sun. Feb. 09, 2020 11:50 pm

Thanks everyone! So I picked up a barometric damper with the T-shape piping too. My dad and I installed it, set the weight at the 4 . The first day I had a kaboom that blew the damper out onto my basement floor, so we screwed it to the pipes to prevent that from happening again. Things were burning great! Consistent temp even on warmers days, longer burn time etc. This weekend I had small kaboom that blew open the clean out door and made it stink. Tonight about 45 minutes after filling my fire, ensuring there was bright orange open coal in the middle, there was another kaboom which blew open the clean out door and sucked the damper flap all the way into the stove pipe. I had to reach down in the pipe to get it out. What am I doing wrong? Should I change where the weight is placed? Should i be completely closing the slider draft that is over top the fire, or opening it more? Should i leave my ash clean out door open a bit longer after loading before closing it up for for the night? Any and all additional advice will be much appreciated!

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14658
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Mon. Feb. 10, 2020 4:05 am

I think your problem is that the volatile gases aren't being diluted enough until they can safely ignite over the fuel bed..

Lets be sure that you are burning Anthracite, I will assume that you are.. After loading a fresh batch of coal try leaving the ash door wide open and also prop the load door open just an 1/8 to 1/4 inch until the volatile gases safely ignite. Once they do ignite continue to leave the both doors in this position for another 10-15 minutes. Then finally close both doors and leave the vent on the load door open some. A little trial and error will be needed.

 
coalder
Member
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mon. Dec. 16, 2013 1:48 pm
Location: somewhere high in the catskill mountains
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: harman sf 160
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: wood parlor stove

Post by coalder » Mon. Feb. 10, 2020 9:05 am

Lightning wrote:
Mon. Feb. 10, 2020 4:05 am
I think your problem is that the volatile gases aren't being diluted enough until they can safely ignite over the fuel bed..

Lets be sure that you are burning Anthracite, I will assume that you are.. After loading a fresh batch of coal try leaving the ash door wide open and also prop the load door open just an 1/8 to 1/4 inch until the volatile gases safely ignite. Once they do ignite continue to leave the both doors in this position for another 10-15 minutes. Then finally close both doors and leave the vent on the load door open some. A little trial and error will be needed.
+ 1
Also make sure that you don't bury your coal bed completely. Leave an area of red coals exposed to help burn off the gases & also don't load on top of a "sleeping fire". Rev it up till the coals are red before loading, & you will be fine.
Jim

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Mon. Feb. 10, 2020 9:45 am

You have a combo wood/coal unit...Hand fed units when burning coal dislike combustion fans as you have come to find out. This is part of the mentioned 'trial and error'.

Try leaving the fan switch off. But anthracite wants primary air from below grates so sounds like you have no secondary air inlet...this can be a problem for this type coal...

HTH

BTW: More added air is NOT dilution...it is a chemical reaction where early CO production is oxidized into CO2.
Excess CO makes a BOOM if left unburned and has a build-up during delay time in igniting...where as CO2 is very stable.
Hint: Blue Ladies Dancing is a visual display of CO changing into CO2...CO is fuel...CO2 is NOT fuel.
That's it for todays chemistry class...;)
Last edited by McGiever on Mon. Feb. 10, 2020 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.


 
Hoytman
Member
Posts: 5990
Joined: Wed. Jan. 18, 2017 11:30 pm
Location: swOH near a little town where the homes are mobile and the cars aren’t
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: nut coal
Other Heating: electric, wood, oil

Post by Hoytman » Mon. Feb. 10, 2020 10:40 am

CO being carbon monoxide ... and ...

CO2 being carbon dioxide.

Thanks for that post, Larry!

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14658
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Mon. Feb. 10, 2020 1:24 pm

McGiever wrote:
Mon. Feb. 10, 2020 9:45 am
More added air is NOT dilution...it is a chemical reaction where early CO production is oxidized into CO2.
Hi Mac :) I was referring more about the baked out hydrocarbon gases from a fresh batch of coal. Letting the load door propped open a smidge will keep the fuel/air ratio too lean for these volatiles to create a flash and instead will ignite safely over the fuel bed once the fuel/air ratio is proper for them to do so.

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Mon. Feb. 10, 2020 1:36 pm

McGiever wrote:
Mon. Feb. 10, 2020 9:45 am
More added air is NOT dilution...it is a chemical reaction where early CO production is oxidized into CO2.
My "added air" would of been better said as "added O2"...


Lightning wrote:
Mon. Feb. 10, 2020 1:24 pm
Hi Mac :) I was referring more about the baked out hydrocarbon gases from a fresh batch of coal. Letting the load door propped open a smidge will keep the fuel/air ratio too lean for these volatiles to create a flash and instead will ignite safely over the fuel bed once the fuel/air ratio is proper for them to do so.
Yup, that there is the CO I was speaking of...it is valuable fuel, seen burning as Blue Ladies Dancing and is a great draft creator for the stack also.
CO ignites equally well with secondary air (lacking in this style of unit), but, true as you say the fuel/air ration has to get right...too much or too little makes for a delay in ignition.

I would guess the OP is skipping/omitting the Blue Ladies Dancing part (by the below grate fan blowing)...fix that, and somehow allow this combo wood/coal unit to have a source for ample secondary air and things will go a lot smoother.

Post Reply

Return to “Hand Fired Coal Stoves & Furnaces Using Anthracite”