Moving Heat

Hi again, Thanks for the welcome back. I'm not a heat engineer. I've got a couple of questions that will prove that without a doubt. I know this has been addressed ad nauseam but I've been trying to think of and read about ways to get the heat up from the basement from a hand fired stove such as the Hitzer 82 or if I get a bit richer, a Glenwood base burner. I was thinking, and this is from memory only as I'm about 9000 miles from the house, that the square inches of my heat registers are greater than those of my return air registers. I was wondering if this is generally true for forced air systems compared to gravity systems. The heat registers are all on the perimeter of the house and generally under windows, whereas the cold air returns are generally centrally located. I would guess this was planned when the cost of oil was really cheap and heat output near where drafts are generated would increase the overall comfort level. Because of this, maybe I could remove (and neatly label and stack) all my duct pipes and install pipes from the current heat registers to the lower part of the basement making them the cold air returns and have the current return registers allow the heat to rise close to the centre of the house. Any input on that idea?
Next idea, and this is where I expect to be told to sign into the loony bin. Heat pumps are all the rage at the moment, but I don't buy it yet. After all they use compressors like A/C units, and even though they aren't producing heat, just moving it which is supposedly cheaper, it still seems like it might be a big ineffective expense especially in northern Maine. I'm of course talking about air to air heat pumps. But........... here's the short bus idea. What if I left my heat ducts, and my Leave it to Beaver era furnace in place with a new power vent and used my chimney for a good coal stove and put in a heat pump with the compressor unit in the basement to move the heat up to the living area. That way it wouldn't be dependent on the outside temps to be efficient. I already have a heat pump water heater in the basement to scavenge that heat for domestic hot water. In the summer, during the two weeks we might actually use A/C, a fan could easily be placed on the basement ground level exit to remove excess heat. Any thoughts, ridicule, or insults welcome.

Hi Keegs, you're right, it sure is a small world. My house is on Main Rd. in the centre of town. You have to go by it if you want to get out of town to either Houlton or PI. I'd be happy if you drop in for a coffee, beer or Allen's Coffee Brandy or all three when I get to Maine this fall. Not sure when you are in your Maine house. I'd really like to see your chubby in person some day. Sheesh that doesn't sound right on a family forum. Stove I mean. Anyone else welcome too.

Jon no h

I forgot that I was going to add this anecdote to distract you from noticing my lack of heat engineering knowledge. It's was off subject, but I thought it was rather amusing. I was judging a story telling contest among Chinese students here in Malaysia, and afterwards my Canadian colleague, Terry, and I were smoking and joking with the students outside. We were standing in front of a world map on the wall of the building, and one of the boys asked, "Teacher! Where are you from?". I replied, " USA.". The boy then asked Terry, "Are you from America too?". Terry was distracted by another student and didn't answer so I said, "I'm from here", and pointed to the map in the general direction of New England, and, "She's from here", pointing in the general direction of Nova Scotia, "They're above us". Terry immediately spoke up and said. "In so many many ways!"

Jon no h

What if I left my heat ducts, and my Leave it to Beaver era furnace in place with a new power vent and used my chimney for a good coal stove and put in a heat pump with the compressor unit in the basement to move the heat up to the living area.

You do not need a heat pump to use the furnace to move heat through the ductwork. Instead of getting a coal stove, get a coal furnace - which will be able to tie into your ductwork. If you are interested in a Hitzer unit, they offer several models to choose from.

http://hitzer.com/uploads/page/Files/Furnace_Broc ... 281%29.pdf

Heat pumps have come a long way (I installed one a few years ago), but their efficiency and output drops off considerably as the temperature drops. If you want one for AC and heat in the spring and fall, that's fine...but I think you should forget the idea of heating your house in Dec-Feb with one.

.but I think you should forget the idea of heating your house in Dec-Feb with one.

Rob, please keep us advised on the maintenance needed with a variable speed compressor over a 10 year period. Complex things need complex servicing. A Keystoker 90 fitted with a 460 cfm fan with an 8" duct and a good cold air return system is working well in a 30x80' building here on the farm.

The cold dead bodies of these MaIners was just uncovered as winter ebbs. aahahahahahhaa. She wanted one and all he wanted to do was play with his model cars.

Hi Jon,

We're on the Corner rd. next to Steve Whited's place. The house is set off the road..(see my avatar). We're up during the summers mostly. I try to keep the driveway open for as long as possible but mother nature usually reminds me who's boss. This year I made it to mid-January.

Just checked the population of Bridgewater...it's < 600 ... Whoda thunk it.

Not gonna be much help to you on HVAC questions. I hear a lot of folks complain about their heat pumps not putting out enough heat though. I'd imagine if you're starting out with a real tight house you might have better results. Pellet stoves are pretty big around The County. They're easy to vent and price wise, the fuel is on par with coal. I think the operation is a bit easier than coal too. But you do have to keep those pellets dry.

I'm a big fan of the Chubby though. They're bullet proof and throw off a lot of heat. It was -15 F outside last time I was up. Inside it was in the mid-60's and I don't have insulation in the attic. I'm guessing it's running me about $5. a day to heat the house with coal.

Seems those Canadians do like to rub our nose in it. I figure it's payback. Wished they'd drive a little slower past my house though.

jonnoh wrote: ↑

Sun. Feb. 17, 2019 11:49 pm

I know this has been addressed ad nauseam but I've been trying to think of and read about ways to get the heat up from the basement from a hand fired stove such as the Hitzer 82 or if I get a bit richer, a Glenwood base burner.

Unless you have a very small house, I wouldn't even try a "stove". If you are talking about heating the whole house, you need a central heating system, not a stove.

A "stove" is for room, or area heating, a "furnace" or "boiler" is for directing heat to where you need it. Here is a coal furnace in action.


-Don

coalnewbie wrote: ↑

Mon. Feb. 18, 2019 7:04 am

Rob, please keep us advised on the maintenance needed with a variable speed compressor over a 10 year period. Complex things need complex servicing.

I am not aware of any specific service requirements for the compressor...other than replacing it when it fails. Heating is the most demanding operation for the compressor, so it seems that not pushing the unit to its design limits is likely a good way to extend the life....which is part of the reason I suggested forgetting the idea of using a heat pump in the winter months. For the rest of the year, standard service for any AC system applies - keep the coils/filters/fans clean.

StokerDon wrote: ↑

Mon. Feb. 18, 2019 9:47 am

Unless you have a very small house, I wouldn't even try a "stove". If you are talking about heating the whole house, you need a central heating system, not a stove.

-Don

I agree with Don. Very few houses are laid out in a way that permits even heating with a single stove.

I built a house with a loft, Was hot in the loft in summer with ac on, was smoking hot with my coal stove down stairs, I put 4 inch flex duct in both corners of the house at the back of the loft, the duct was a couple inches from the floor, Installed muffin fans to circulate the air, I thought that i could blow the warm air down into the 2 back rooms and it would warm them up in the winter and cool off the loft, Big boo boo, Did nothing, I reversed the fans and sucked the cold air from the bedrooms to the upstairs, Wow worked like a charm. Nice in summer and winter.
Worked good for me.
Good luck, Stant

As the thread title says,"Moving Heat"...
I have always been impressed with how warm it is even in bitterest of weather inside a dairy barn full of cows, as are others who realize this to, I'm sure.

I couldn't help but wonder why some wise ole farmer hadn't 'tapped' this valuable source of BTU's for heating or at least supplementing his house heating.

OBB, or Outdoor Bovine Boiler...Bury a Badger Underground PEX from barn to house...circulate air over water coils on both ends...free fuel at the highest level possible.

Tap into milk cooler tank, as to not loose all that heat either...dump it back to heat hot-water use. (that's a compressor/heat-pump)

And as a backup for times the cows are out of the barn...a conventional boiler of your fuel choice.

Not saying farmers need more projects to keep busy with, but this one would or could pay back big dividends.
Any free energy is hard to just leave go away. Wonder if Larry can do cow therm math...input-output=???
No new fuel, no new ashes...no new supply-chain, no new employees, no day to day added labor...