50-93 or Vigilant 1

 
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Smart_Ash
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 1.0 Hitzer 50-93

Post by Smart_Ash » Fri. Feb. 15, 2019 8:04 pm

I started off with the Vigilant then switched to the Hitzer. Now I’m rethinking my decision to switch stoves. I’ve been running the Hitzer for about 5 winters now and I sometimes questions it’s efficiency. There is just something about a big box with a hole in the back of it that drives me nuts. Seems like a bunch of BTU’s are just going up and out the back. I do like the stove. The hopper and bi-metal thermostat make it an easy stove to run. Thinking about the Vigilant I do like how the internal damper flips and redirects the exhaust down the sides, up the back of the stove, then out the flue. Seems like a much more efficient stove. I think I remember using just one pail of coal every 12 hours. The Hitzer seems to use more than that. So the question is does anyone think it’s worth going back to the Vigilant 1 over the 50-93? Would there be a savings in coal with the 50k but vs the 100k btu Hitzer?


 
CapeCoaler
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Post by CapeCoaler » Fri. Feb. 15, 2019 8:30 pm

The Vigilant sure looks prettier...
Have you needed the extra btu's that the Vigilant did not have...
The Hitizer is practical...
The Vigilant is prettier...

 
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Hambden Bob
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Post by Hambden Bob » Fri. Feb. 15, 2019 8:43 pm

Smokey Sez:"How Much Money You Got To Make It Go?"
Yeah,I borrowed that from back in the day when NA$CAR was really fun! You've got a really Great Problem:The power to discern! You've come far enough in Coal Burning to weigh options! Either way You go,You win..
Good Luck with Your Decision!

 
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warminmn
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Post by warminmn » Fri. Feb. 15, 2019 9:43 pm

Heres one vote for pimping out the Hitzer with the sparkly trim options, maybe some of those fancy stove pipe thingies that look like vines and flowers growing around the pipe, maybe even paint it a different color or two. Im sure you could do something to make the legs look nicer with some thought. But thats just me.

Im glad you have such nice options.

 
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Hambden Bob
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Post by Hambden Bob » Fri. Feb. 15, 2019 10:39 pm

Oh Jesus H. Christ,Warm ! You just took the Hitzer Downtown!
Rockin' I mean simply Rockin'!!!
You can only get this kind of Action,Here,In the Coal Zone!!!

 
KingCoal
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Post by KingCoal » Sat. Feb. 16, 2019 7:38 am

CapeCoaler wrote:
Fri. Feb. 15, 2019 8:30 pm

Have you needed the extra btu's that the Vigilant did not have...
I think we are closer to the crux of it right there.

did you at the time of the switch feel that you "needed" more power to satisfy your heat demand ?

or, as has happened to lots of us concerning many things, was the thinking 'man this Vig is really something, but, I wonder if i'm missing something not having...………..." ?

about fuel consumption, my experience with 4 diff. stoves has been that there is a certain constant of anth. liking to be deep and close and there is the fact that stoves vary in fire box and grate area size.

you can set up the Vig on a flue and set up the Hitzer on another identical flue in the same house with the same "background temp", run them both at the very same body temp. and the hitzer will consistently use more fuel, because there is more exposed fuel at the grate. this will be exaggerated by the fact that the Vig. has a better radiant exhaust path.

are either of these stoves actually better or lesser than the other, nope. they just do what they do in differing patterns.

the Vig. is well known for it's functions and the Hitzer is too. but, if you can satisfy your peak heat demand with the Vig and it does it at a fuel savings you might consider going back to it. on the other hand, if annually you really do need the massive "oomph" of the 50-93 to carry you thru several sets of multiple days and nights of extreme cold then maybe just keep idling the Hitzer down when ever you can and then just turn the dial and smirk when it gets rough out.

personally I would have liked to have seen the Vig. line expanded to include a unit of the same configuration with a 80 btu capacity. ( yes, I know all north American tags lie but the lie is atleast linear )

some or all of this can and will be contested and your results may vary, as has been said, you have both stoves, you can revisit the Vig. at will at little cost and either way you win.

steve

 
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Smart_Ash
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Post by Smart_Ash » Sat. Feb. 16, 2019 10:34 am

That is what I was worried about. The Hitzer can really throw out the heat when needed. I’m not sure of how much of the 100k btu capacity I’m using. I will run it up to 500 on the thermometer mounted to the front right top side when it gets really cold out. That seems to keep the house 75 ish when it’s below zero outside. It’s nice to have Wifey walking around in short shorts and a tank top in the middle of winters worst! I do remember running the Vigilant at 600 griddle top temp but I’m not sure how long it will hold that for. I don’t want to switch stoves and have a cold house.


 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Sat. Feb. 16, 2019 10:41 am

The simplicity of the 50-93 is what sold me compared to the VIG---I'm heatin around 2000 Sq. with no problems. House stays a consistent 72*--stove room is hotter!! LOL Ceiling fan distributes heat well in this 200+ yr old broke up farm house.

 
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Post by KingCoal » Sat. Feb. 16, 2019 11:05 am

Smart_Ash wrote:
Sat. Feb. 16, 2019 10:34 am
That is what I was worried about. The Hitzer can really throw out the heat when needed. I’m not sure of how much of the 100k btu capacity I’m using. I will run it up to 500 on the thermometer mounted to the front right top side when it gets really cold out. That seems to keep the house 75 ish when it’s below zero outside. It’s nice to have Wifey walking around in short shorts and a tank top in the middle of winters worst! I do remember running the Vigilant at 600 griddle top temp but I’m not sure how long it will hold that for. I don’t want to switch stoves and have a cold house.
since you are already chuckling to yourself anytime the forecast goes bad I would stick with the 50-93 for obvious reasons :twisted:

 
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oliver power
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Post by oliver power » Sun. Feb. 17, 2019 3:23 pm

I'll put my 2 cents in :7). Well, for starters, the 50-93 is not just a box with a hole in the back. It may look like it but, look a little closer. It is very well engineered. 1.) The possible outlet configurations of the Vigilant, whether top vent, or back vent, are still at the upper back of stove. The 50-93 smoke outlet is on the back, but down lower The exhaust has to go down, then out. 2.) The Vigilant's internal baffle will send fumes down through passages, and out. That's a nice design but, those passages need to be cleaned. The 50-93 draws fumes around the hopper, down, and out. And that's after the fumes give up hottest BTU's to the finned heat exchanger out front of the hopper. Both stoves have there own method of creating longer path for gasses to travel, in order to extract BTU's. 3.) You can adjust idle fire with 50-93. No adjusting idle fire with Vigilant. 4.) 50-93 is capable of more BTU's, and longer burn times. 5.) 50-93 has much better grates. No getting down on hands, and knees in order to slice grates, like ya do with Vigilant. 50-93 grates clear ash better, and quicker 6.) 50-93 has fan option. 7.) 50-93 is way more user friendly. In my opinion, the ONLY thing the Vigilant has over the 50-93 is looks. Like has already been said, you could dress up the 50-93.

 
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Post by carver012 » Mon. Aug. 12, 2019 9:27 pm

just curious what you found out. i was thinking of replacing my vigilant 2 with a 50-93. only reason is because i run my vigilant so long during the year for the last 10 years. east central pa down by the blue mtn at the lehigh/carbon border.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Mon. Aug. 12, 2019 10:02 pm

Oliver,
Can you explain not being able to adjust the idle on the Vigilant I?

What are the differences between the Vigilant I and the and the Vigilant II?

I get what you’re saying about getting on your knees and slicing grates, but I think those Vii grates are really heavily built compared to my Hitzer 354 I just bought...and they’re heavy... and well built and of good design, but even the 354 grates aren’t as heavy as Gibraltar/Glacier Bay grates...which are the heaviest I’ve seen.

I guess for a given size home where one stove may be a tad too big but can be idled low enough...then I’d put heavy consideration on the stove build itself. I mean... don’t the Vermont Castings stoves every so often have to be torn down/apart and the cast iron plates resealed every so often? Don’t have to do that with the Hitzer. Not that it would be that big of a deal for me, but rather than do it on a more modern stove I’d rather be doing it on an old antique stove like a Glenwood #6...then I wouldn’t mind it at all. It would actually be fun.

 
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Tue. Aug. 13, 2019 7:53 pm

Hoytman wrote:
Mon. Aug. 12, 2019 10:02 pm
Oliver,
Can you explain not being able to adjust the idle on the Vigilant I?

What are the differences between the Vigilant I and the and the Vigilant II?

I get what you’re saying about getting on your knees and slicing grates, but I think those Vii grates are really heavily built compared to my Hitzer 354 I just bought...and they’re heavy... and well built and of good design, but even the 354 grates aren’t as heavy as Gibraltar/Glacier Bay grates...which are the heaviest I’ve seen.

I guess for a given size home where one stove may be a tad too big but can be idled low enough...then I’d put heavy consideration on the stove build itself. I mean... don’t the Vermont Castings stoves every so often have to be torn down/apart and the cast iron plates resealed every so often? Don’t have to do that with the Hitzer. Not that it would be that big of a deal for me, but rather than do it on a more modern stove I’d rather be doing it on an old antique stove like a Glenwood #6...then I wouldn’t mind it at all. It would actually be fun.
The Vig II (and Vig I) have decorative molding all over, which is why people call it pretty. And beauty is a point if you ever sell the house. (Even inefficient open fireplaces add a lot to house prices.) But I read that all that molding also increases the external surface area by almost 50% over the internal surface area. I believe the extra surface area would increase the heat transfer to the air, but that may count for efficiency and evenness of radiance rather than mere output in BTU's. It would also catch and transfer more heat that otherwise would have gone up the chimney, in addition to the effect of the flame paths through the stove body. That may be yet another reason the Hitzer mentioned may use more coal for the same output.

I have wondered if a large metal sculpture atop a coal stove would increase the effective surface radiating heat and save it from the chimney. (Or something like a radiator with a flat base sitting on the stove... or simply a slab of vertical iron on a secure base.) I assume it would drop the stove temp a few degrees, transferring it to the room.

 
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Post by oliver power » Sun. Sep. 08, 2019 10:21 pm

Hoytman wrote:
Mon. Aug. 12, 2019 10:02 pm
Oliver,
Can you explain not being able to adjust the idle on the Vigilant I?

What are the differences between the Vigilant I and the and the Vigilant II?

I get what you’re saying about getting on your knees and slicing grates, but I think those Vii grates are really heavily built compared to my Hitzer 354 I just bought...and they’re heavy... and well built and of good design, but even the 354 grates aren’t as heavy as Gibraltar/Glacier Bay grates...which are the heaviest I’ve seen.

I guess for a given size home where one stove may be a tad too big but can be idled low enough...then I’d put heavy consideration on the stove build itself. I mean... don’t the Vermont Castings stoves every so often have to be torn down/apart and the cast iron plates resealed every so often? Don’t have to do that with the Hitzer. Not that it would be that big of a deal for me, but rather than do it on a more modern stove I’d rather be doing it on an old antique stove like a Glenwood #6...then I wouldn’t mind it at all. It would actually be fun.
Idle Fire: Both Hitzer, and Vigilant have bi-metallic primary air control. When the flapper door closes, air is cut off, and fire dies. However, in addition to the bi-metallic primary air, the Hitzer has ash pan vents for controlling the intensity of the idle fire. Vigilant does not have that option. Yes, you can drill holes, attach paper clip, etc. to Vigilant flapper door.

Difference between Vigilant 1, and 2 are: 2 has it's own swing out ash pan door, due to deeper fire box.

 
charlesosborne2002
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Sun. Sep. 08, 2019 11:18 pm

I bought a Vigilant II last year, my first coal stove, and I am pleased as punch with it. However, at the time I was leaning toward one more like the 354. I went with Vigilant II because the price was great (they are discontinued, but still available new). I don't know what you mean about idling. The Vigilant II turns up and down like a thermostat--you push it one way for warmer and the other way for less. It has wide-open, or closed with minimal air, or anything in between. A low setting does not smother the fire. I turn it down at night unless it is beastly cold.

I do advise against too big a stove for the house, because just keeping it lit may produce too much heat (and waste coal). A big box of coal puts out the heat even turned down. Even the Vigilant is too large on some days--some people reduce the firebox size by putting some extra firebricks in it on the sides.

Some people here at Coalpail have had Vigilant stoves for over 20 years without having to rebuild them. They are cast iron rather than welded steel--there are advantages to both. The cast iron (which has to be bolted rather than welded like steel) has decorative moldings in the casting, making them beautiful--but this also increases the surface area by 50% so there is more radiance considering the stove size.

Beauty is a consideration if you sell your house, and Vigilant II can be used as an open fireplace for wood (the doors slip off). This is much better than a masonry fireplace as the iron radiates the heat rather than sending it all up the chimney, but of course, as a fireplace, it is still much less efficient than a fine new woodstove. I do burn wood in it in fall and spring to take out the chill. For that I prefer the open fire with a screen--unlike the Vigilant I, it does not have the secondary air over the fire to feed the wood and keep soot off the glass if the doors are closed. Vig II is really a coal stove though, while the Vig I had conversion options.


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