anyone running with OUT a barro?

ratherbeflying wrote: ↑

Wed. Dec. 12, 2018 9:44 pm

well lightening, you just saved me from drilling into my Gibraltar lol im guessing the 259 is stove top and the 190 is side or pipe? i have to ask what are the other numbers?? and i see your draft is .035, that mano seems to be easier to read between the lines then the almighty mark II 25. ill be purchasing the baro soon enough, i need to shut down for that one, and try to figure out how and where on the "pipe" to install since my pipe is literally only 3 elbows connected together.. should be fun lol but what would u recommend the RC or the MC? i hear mixed about what i should purchase

Remember we love pictures.

newbie questions, Gibraltar reviews???? that should be the link to a thread i posted my pictures in.

edit by VigIIPB - added pictures from other thread:

Lightning wrote: ↑

Wed. Dec. 12, 2018 5:29 pm

I think you'll find that if you install a baro, you won't need to modify/construct a bi metallic primary air damper. With a steady draft pressure, you will be able to manually control the primary air to give you the heat output that you want and it will stay there until the fuel bed starts to become depleted OR ash bounding restricts combustion air flow.

What do these 2 different controls we've discussed so many times do? They control flow, pressure, and velocity so our hand fired coal appliances maintain an even temperature under all conditions. I''m not an engineer but here's how I muddled through the thought process

Lightning said it: If there wasn't a single hole properly sized below the grates to fabricate a thermostatic air control, a baro is the simplest answer to maintain draft pressure at the combustion air inlet. I've read and heard that RC is the solid fuel model. It maintains the overfire draft in the zone that allows the stove to hold the combustion heat long enough to allow efficient heat exchange to the room. However, a baro does create a variable flow of conditioned room air going up the chimney creating a small vacuum in the living area. 'Nature abhors a vacuum' so the air going up the chimney through the baro will pull an equal amount of outside air into the room that will need to be conditioned.

A thermostatic air control below the fire responds to stove temperature. It controls the amount of combustion air entering the chimney from one source below the fire. It minimizes the vacuum pulled in the living area because less air goes up through the chimney. This air is all for combustion to support the coal bed fire needed to maintain the desired stove temperature. I always saw it as an APD - an "automatic pipe damper" The hot chimney will have what ever overfire draft pressure the system creates (in my case a higher than recommended -0.1+) but the flap closes to regulate the combustion air velocity and volume in response to stove temperature. If it's windy, you hear it tap the hot stove because it's shut down due to the negative pressure of pulsing wind driven draft.

Each system has their own issues. The earlier mentioned loss of conditioned air going up the chimney through a baro which is minimally inefficient in terms of heating. Whit a thermo-flap regulating stove temperature, the stove has to be air tight because the negative pressure isn't being regulated. If there's a bad leak, heat goes up the chimney too fast. They both regulate stove pipe temperature and keep heat in the stove longer which is the main goal.

ratherbeflying wrote: ↑

Thu. Dec. 13, 2018 9:10 am

newbie questions, Gibraltar reviews???? that should be the link to a thread i posted my pictures in.

Looks pretty tight to put baro in that area. Is that 8" pipe?

1st thing "i'd" do is what ever it takes to move the stove out from the back wall and over to the left so that you can make the hook up with just a short piece of pipe in the stove collar, a 90* elbow another short piece of pipe then a "T" with the baro in it going into the reducer.

if not i'm afraid you'll probably have to give up the idea of the baro.

good luck,
steve

Baro's mount vertical or horizontal but cannot be mounted on swivel joints as pointed out. The room temps and stove temps you have would seem everything is good as is?

im pretty sure its a 6" pipe and yeah it does seem tight, i was wondering if i can put the T between one of the elbows and twist the other sections to make it work? maybe turn the stove a little ? but yeah thats my issue im playing with, this is what makes me think the bimetallic would be a better solution....??

well, if you want to keep the stove pretty much right where it is you could let it go out, take all the elbows off, stick a "T" in the reducer with the side opening facing away from the stove to the left and that opening absolutely vertical.

then use what ever elbows and straight pipe you have to in order to get back to the stove collar and install the baro. in the "T"

just because i'm a bit of a stove customizer i'd leave it hooked up as, get a short piece of cut down tin can to use as a guide and a plasma cutter and in 2 mins. have the hole for the bi-metal done, drill and tap the holes for the spout and control box and screw them on, all while the stove is running. from there the bi metal does ALL your intake chores for you.

the bi metal will do more for you in both high and low wind and draft conditions then a baro ever will.

opinions and results will vary,
steve

yes thats what i was thinking i just dont know where to buy the correct bimetallic set up. how do i know what would work correctly with my stove? or can i calibrate it to my stove temps?

take your pick, you can use the stock pieces from Hitzer or from DSM.

personally i recommend using the parts from DSM the spout and flapper are cast, heavier and less prone to wear.

if you call DSM just tell them you need the bi metal control box and intake air spout for a DSM 1400 circulator stove. they are all adjustable by moving the ball chain in the flapper clasp and i can tell you how far above the spout the control box needs to be.

i'll add picks here later tonight.

steve

awesome, i really hope i end up installing one, either way i think a baro will help alot and i feel like i should be able to fit it in somehow, i gotta shut down tho and i cant imagine that being anytime soon, unless we get a good warm day im home and i have everything i need.... i have to try to figure out how to fit it into my pipe mess.

I agree the DSM bi-metalic setup is more robust...

Would modifying a stove like that affect home owners insurance if something unfortunate would happen?

Keep in mind the air a baro allows up a chimney is a mixture of room air (nom 65F-75F) and post-combustion air (150F-800F nom).

Simply put, better to send the cooler room air up the pipe and keep the HOTTER air in the furnace or boiler to do the 'heating work'

Any draft amount (measured by barometer) above the mfr specs is simply wasted HOT air going out the chimney instead of heating your spaces.

anyone know what draft setting the baro should be set to on a gilbraltar mcc? it doesnt say anything in the manuals at all...