Low air temp on a Hitzer 82FA

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Keepaeyeonit
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Post by Keepaeyeonit » Sat. Nov. 10, 2018 10:18 pm

Hi everyone, My cousin bought a used(2 years old) Hitzer 82FA furnace and 2 1/2 tons of nut coal from JR,Delagange In Linesville, PA to replace his old wood furnace.Here is a pic of the setup, I know the barometric damper in not the ideal location but he is planning on moving the furnace next year so we decided to stuff it in the clean out tee.
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Now for a rundown of the facts of the setup, 6"x 12" x 30' interior chimney (that pulls like a fright train) shared with the oil furnace ( he knows its not code to share a chimney but thats the way its always been!)which is set not to run unless the house drops below 60°, the baro is a 8" Fields RC going into a 7" flue set to .05 INWC with the manometer pick up tube 18" from the furnace outlet.
The duct setup is as follows, 12" round into the trunk line and the cold air return is ducted off the oil furnace cold air return ( he doesn't have a back flow damper installed yet but we put cardboard in the filter housing of the oil furnace so stop the air from just circling between the two furnaces)with a 980CFM blower.
The problem we are having is the air temp coming off the Hitzer is around 85° to 90° going into the trunk line, now the furnace temps are as followed, Front Upper RH corner of the loading door is at 240° and the RH corner of the furnace body is 190°, rear upper RH body 300° and the LH is 260°, the area between the load and ash door is 530° which is the same as the back of the furnace, and the flue pipe is at a whopping 320° 12'' from the elbow!! way to hot in my opinion
I'm know nothing about the Dial-A-heat thermostat but I did find enough info to be dangerous :o , I have the chain set on ball #16 ( so I have 15 balls hanging) and the dial on 8 gives me a door position as shown
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with the OFA set at a 1/2 turn.
We started the furnace this morning at 9:00 and had it set by 11:00, did a shake and reload at 7:00 this evening adding 40# of coal. After the reload the furnace kinda limbered around losing about 50 to 60° from the temps mention above except the flue temp losing about 100°,after 15 min I closed the bypass damper and could feel the flue pipe instantly getting hot while maintaining a .05INWC of draft the whole time :what: .

Ok now for the million dollar question!! What the hell am I missing with this? The draft is good,the coal seems good( nice white ash and burns really nice ) but I feel the flue pipe is way to hot for the temp of the furnace! Any input would greatly appreciated :)

 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Sat. Nov. 10, 2018 11:24 pm

Seems like lack of airflow through the Hitzer heat exchanger. He is making a lot of heat, just not getting it into the house.

 
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Post by Keepaeyeonit » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 1:33 am

Rob R. wrote:
Sat. Nov. 10, 2018 11:24 pm
Seems like lack of airflow through the Hitzer heat exchanger. He is making a lot of heat, just not getting it into the house.
That sure seems to be the case, The blower is doing better then I thought getting the air to the upstairs but Its missing the heat :?
My next step was going to remove part of the air jacket to see if could see if I could figure out if something was missing or not.

 
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Post by BigAL » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 7:14 am

The heat the stove is making is either: 1. Going out radiantly to the basement, 2. Forced air into the house (which seems to be lacking), or 3. Out the flue. I used an 82FA until this year for 8 yrs. and I put a manual damper in my flue because my chimney has a strong draft as well and I had it turned off when I fired up and ran it (I would open it when I reloaded the stove). My flue was around 180-220 depending on how hard I ran the stove.

I would shake and reload every 12hrs.

 
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Post by Keepaeyeonit » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 7:37 am

BigAL wrote:
Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 7:14 am
The heat the stove is making is either: 1. Going out radiantly to the basement, 2. Forced air into the house (which seems to be lacking), or 3. Out the flue. I used an 82FA until this year for 8 yrs. and I put a manual damper in my flue because my chimney has a strong draft as well and I had it turned off when I fired up and ran it (I would open it when I reloaded the stove). My flue was around 180-220 depending on how hard I ran the stove.

I would shake and reload every 12hrs.
It would seem most of the heat is going up the chimney with the flue pipe at that temp, What temps of the stove when you were seeing the 180°-220° flue temps?


 
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Post by Rob R. » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 7:45 am

It is not uncommon for these stoves to have a high flue temperature shortly after reloading (they burn the gasses in the flue outlet area).

Sadly I have very little experience with forced hot air systems, so I can't suggest anything else other than disconnecting the Hitzer from the ductwork and seeing how it performs like that. If the flue temperatures come down and it roasts you out of the basement, you will have confirmed that it is an airflow problem.

 
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Post by BigAL » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 7:46 am

Just about the same as what you mentioned. I know the front of my stove used to run hotter than the back by at least 20º-50º.

 
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Post by BigAL » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 7:52 am

Once the ash built up on the right side of the stove where the fire brick are at a 45º angle that also helped keep the flue lower in temp. When I would first fire up I would have the manual flue damper closed and the stove damper open for a couple of days and then close the stove damper after that.

Oh the joys of learning your coal stove...!! :baby:

 
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Post by Keepaeyeonit » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 8:04 am

Thanks for the input guys, I just got a text from him and he said the house was 67° ( not 76°), face of stove was 250°, and the pipe was 275° so we are making headway.He just did a reload and added 40#'s of coal in 12 HRS with a 26° outside temp, Now its just making baby adjustments to dial it in!! Well I hope anyways :)
Last edited by Keepaeyeonit on Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by Keepaeyeonit » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 8:12 am

BigAL wrote:
Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 7:52 am
Once the ash built up on the right side of the stove where the fire brick are at a 45º angle that also helped keep the flue lower in temp. When I would first fire up I would have the manual flue damper closed and the stove damper open for a couple of days and then close the stove damper after that.

Oh the joys of learning your coal stove...!! :baby:
Boy you are so right, my Hitzer 983 was like that as it would take a few days to get running right and I still don't know why :?


 
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 8:49 am

Over the fire draft reading always means more than the stove pipe reading.
Try -.02 INWC over the fire reading (through the loading door) and the Hitzer dial control will take care of the rest. Stack temp will settle down some then.

But, a possiblly bigger issue is that as a rule of thumb, Return Air size must be15-20% larger square inch area size larger than the supply...if not you will have a bottle-neck air restriction.
Less restriction more air volume can flow...more heat extracted and delivered.

 
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Post by Jst a Vtr » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 9:11 am

Rob R. wrote:
Sat. Nov. 10, 2018 11:24 pm
Seems like lack of airflow through the Hitzer heat exchanger. He is making a lot of heat, just not getting it into the house.
I do not have a true add on coal furnace, just some thing I have made to work as one. IMO remove the cardboard from the filter and wire the oil furnace blower parallel with the Hitzer blower. I am assuming the Hitzer has a adjustable fan limit switch
so you may need to play with the settings. Mine is set so the heated air at the registers is no lower than 90*. I have a homemade back flow damper between my oil furnace and coal stove, although i only see it being useful when using the oil furnace. When operating the coal stove there can be some back flow, although in my opinion the heat is really not lost. When
the fan is not running I do get a fair amount of convection heating when the limit switch is not calling for the blower to come on.

 
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Post by Keepaeyeonit » Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 5:57 pm

McGiever wrote:
Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 8:49 am
Over the fire draft reading always means more than the stove pipe reading.
Try -.02 INWC over the fire reading (through the loading door) and the Hitzer dial control will take care of the rest. Stack temp will settle down some then
Thanks Larry, I do believe the draft is still high and I'm not sure the manometer is reading good ( seems like its acting goofy to me, he ordered a better one yesterday ) The wind was blowing 15+ yesterday when we started and the coal furnace and the oil furnace baros were both wide opened :o but I have foil over it now so we can get the Hitzers baro dialed in. I'm wondering if a MPD along with a baro?
McGiever wrote:
Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 8:49 am
But, a possiblly bigger issue is that as a rule of thumb, Return Air size must be15-20% larger square inch area size larger than the supply...if not you will have a bottle-neck air restriction.
Less restriction more air volume can flow...more heat extracted and delivered.

The return air duct is 196 SQIN and the round plenum is 113 SQIN, I'm not worried about getting the heat to the rest of the house I think that little blower is doing a good job moving the air but the air coming off the furnace is not hot enough.I would think it should be at least 120°but the hottest I have seen is 92°.
Jst a Vtr wrote:
Sun. Nov. 11, 2018 9:11 am


I do not have a true add on coal furnace, just some thing I have made to work as one. IMO remove the cardboard from the filter and wire the oil furnace blower parallel with the Hitzer blower. I am assuming the Hitzer has a adjustable fan limit switch
so you may need to play with the settings. Mine is set so the heated air at the registers is no lower than 90*. I have a homemade back flow damper between my oil furnace and coal stove, although i only see it being useful when using the oil furnace. When operating the coal stove there can be some back flow, although in my opinion the heat is really not lost. When
the fan is not running I do get a fair amount of convection heating when the limit switch is not calling for the blower to come on.
He wants to keep the coal furnace on its own, The temp settings on the Hitzer 110°off and 140° on but the blower never stops when it's furnace is running, the only time it will stop is during a reload.
Thats what isn't making sense to me is the air seems hot but Its not going up the round plenum.

 
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Post by Keepaeyeonit » Sat. Nov. 17, 2018 7:54 pm

Hi all just an update on this, I been helping my cousin over the phone (except on Tuesday when I showed him how to clear the ash around the firebox) so he can see the results of the adjustments he is making.
The flue temp is going down( hovering around 230° with the door temp around 325° or so) as he is cutting the draft but it still needs to come down some, he did place a call to Dean to ask some questions and got the answers, the big question was the air temp coming off the furnace which he said was close to what it should be.
The biggest thing is the heat loss in the house with the lack of insulation in the walls which he is going to take care of next year, he is learning how to keep the house at the proper temp without a forced combustion furnace but its proving to be more then he thought it would be :baby:.
So far so good,he has a nice even fire and no puffing :yes: so I think he is doing fine and a added plus is he listens :) .

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