Chimney Liner

 
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BlackBetty06
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Posts: 603
Joined: Tue. Jan. 01, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Lancaster county PA
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Nut
Other Heating: Jotul 118b woodstove, dual fuel heat pump/condensing propane furnace

Post by BlackBetty06 » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 7:28 pm

Hey guys. Im seriously debating installing a 25 foot insulated 316ti chimney liner this year before I fire up from rockford chimney supply. They have a lifetime guarantee on it. I called them twice a few weeks apart and talke to different people and got the same answers. My 50-93 is hooked up into an exterior masonry 12x12 terracotta fireplace flue. I feel like this is going to help the stove perform better and would have to give better draft. Last winter when we had summer in february(80 degrees) down here in the crusty southeast part of pa, I got home just in time to witness my draft go negative and fill my house with CO. If I would have been an hour later I probably would have came home to a dead dog. Ive also had some issues on heavy atmosphere days establishing a strong draft to liven up the fire when refueling. I have to burn the stove hot for awhile to get heat in the chimney to get it pulling good again. I also have a Jotul 118 that I hook up to this chimney in the spring and fall. Both flue outlet heights are 27" so I slide one out and the other in. I can change my stoves out in 5 minutes. My hang up is liners are so dang expensive that its going to negate any saving by burning coal for a few years not including if I would move out. I guess I dont have much of an option though. I dont need another CO scare. What are your guys thoughts?


 
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Lightning
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Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 8:00 pm

Hmmm. Well first I would make sure my chimney is sealed good to the stove pipe and clean out door is sealed good. I'd look for anywhere that draft could be robbed by leaks. One such source could be stove pipe seams, tape them all up with aluminum tape or use a sealant, maybe even furnace cement.

If that didn't work, and I'm sure to get flamed for this, I would add provisions for secondary air over the fire. This would require boring a two inch hole thru the stove somewhere above the fire with a swing plate for adjustment. Preferably on the front face of the stove. I cured my draft failures during warm weather burns with secondary air. I run my secondary air inlets wide open during low slow warm weather burns. The extra heated air mass keeps the draft moving up the chimney but at the same time it doesn't contribute to making the fire burn hotter.

That would be my fix, long before considering any liners.

Where's Fred?

 
CapeCoaler
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Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Post by CapeCoaler » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 8:31 pm

The 'rents had an insulated ss liner on the 503...
same kind of situation...
cold poorly drafting chimney...
they got about 6 years out of it...
Great draft while the liner was good...

 
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BlackBetty06
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Posts: 603
Joined: Tue. Jan. 01, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Lancaster county PA
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Nut
Other Heating: Jotul 118b woodstove, dual fuel heat pump/condensing propane furnace

Post by BlackBetty06 » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 8:58 pm

Thats what Im worried about. Rotting out the liner. The guy on the phone claims they havent had a failure in 10 years even with coal usage. Would be nice if I had a real chimney, How are the guys that run straight stainless chimneys not going through a whole chimney every few years

 
CapeCoaler
Member
Posts: 6515
Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Post by CapeCoaler » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 9:52 pm

Read the lifetime guarantee...
usually serviced every year...
by qualified person...
lots of gotchas in the lifetime guarantee...
You can count on a 7 year average service life...
Some do a wood fire first to coat with a thin film...

 
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Jjones6840
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Location: Cecil county, MD
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot blast 1357m
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Electric/heatpump

Post by Jjones6840 » Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 10:18 pm

Is there any way to extend your chimney? I had a draft problem with my chimney not being high enough above the roofline allowing wind off of the roof to force down my chimney. 15 bucks I got a section of clay liner, extended my chimney by 1 foot and that solved my issuses.

 
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BlackBetty06
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Posts: 603
Joined: Tue. Jan. 01, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Lancaster county PA
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Nut
Other Heating: Jotul 118b woodstove, dual fuel heat pump/condensing propane furnace

Post by BlackBetty06 » Thu. Nov. 08, 2018 7:29 pm

Normally I have no issues with draft. Its only when we have summer time heat in the dead of winter and heavy atmosohere days IF im running a low burn. I guess if I want to save 900 bucks Ill just burn the stove hot when its like that and open windows or let it burn out. The other real pain in the ass is laying in the fireplace with a piece of 3/4" pvc pipe packing fiberglass around the pipe up in the flue and then packing the damper opening with fiberglass as the particles rain down in your face. What would be really nice is if I had natural gas. Id use the fireplace as a fireplace and throw the oil burning water heater in the scrap pile and tie the stove into that 8X8 masonry chimney.


 
scalabro
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Location: Western Massachusetts
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14, Abendroth Bros "Record 40"
Coal Size/Type: Stove / Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Post by scalabro » Thu. Nov. 08, 2018 8:12 pm

AL29-4C liner is the answer.

 
archangel_cpj
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Post by archangel_cpj » Thu. Nov. 08, 2018 11:17 pm

You know instead of messing with your chimney it would be cool if you could just set up a means to automatically have a fan go on blowing outside make up air into the house preferably the room with the chimney if the outside temp climbed to some critical level maybe 75 degrees like you said 80 was the problem temp... Theoretically this should have the effect of slightly pressurizing the house and preventing the draft reversal... Seems a PID controller or even a regular thermostat wired to an appropriately sized blower would solve your issue and cost very little...

 
WIburnerPaul
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Posts: 28
Joined: Tue. Feb. 28, 2023 4:33 am
Location: West Allis WI
Hand Fed Coal Stove: King Oak 19B
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Harman Absolute43 wood pellet. Lamppa Kuuma Vapor-Fire 200 gasification wood furnace.

Post by WIburnerPaul » Sun. Mar. 05, 2023 2:17 pm

BlackBetty06 wrote:
Wed. Nov. 07, 2018 7:28 pm
Hey guys. Im seriously debating installing a 25 foot insulated 316ti chimney liner this year before I fire up from rockford chimney supply. They have a lifetime guarantee on it. I called them twice a few weeks apart and talke to different people and got the same answers. My 50-93 is hooked up into an exterior masonry 12x12 terracotta fireplace flue. I feel like this is going to help the stove perform better and would have to give better draft. Last winter when we had summer in february(80 degrees) down here in the crusty southeast part of pa, I got home just in time to witness my draft go negative and fill my house with CO. If I would have been an hour later I probably would have came home to a dead dog. Ive also had some issues on heavy atmosphere days establishing a strong draft to liven up the fire when refueling. I have to burn the stove hot for awhile to get heat in the chimney to get it pulling good again. I also have a Jotul 118 that I hook up to this chimney in the spring and fall. Both flue outlet heights are 27" so I slide one out and the other in. I can change my stoves out in 5 minutes. My hang up is liners are so dang expensive that its going to negate any saving by burning coal for a few years not including if I would move out. I guess I dont have much of an option though. I dont need another CO scare. What are your guys thoughts?
”insulated 316ti chimney liner”? Is that rigid or flex? I talked to Eva at Rockford Chimney in Moscow PA, not far from Olympia in Scranton. Eva asked their technicians who said 316, 316L or 316Ti is ok to burn coal in. Ever talk to her? I understand that Olympia has a “coal warranty”, but for long I don’t know. I was just given a quote to drop a 32’, 6” straight Rigid Rhino liner at $3400. IS 316Ti or 316L MANDATORY FOR COAL?

 
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davidmcbeth3
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Coal Size/Type: nut/pea/anthra

Post by davidmcbeth3 » Sun. Mar. 05, 2023 3:57 pm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113449765347?epid=150128 ... R6LZ27jWYQ

OP did not ask for pipe quotes/pricing but ebay is a possible source .. example ^

 
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BlackBetty06
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Posts: 603
Joined: Tue. Jan. 01, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Lancaster county PA
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Nut
Other Heating: Jotul 118b woodstove, dual fuel heat pump/condensing propane furnace

Post by BlackBetty06 » Sun. Mar. 05, 2023 4:58 pm

You need the 316ti for coal. I’ve had this liner for a bit now and can see pock marks forming in it. I’m sure within a few years it will be eaten through. Make sure you get it in writing that the liner is warrantied for life burning coal insulated or not. That is what I did so when the liner rots through and they try and claim I did something wrong I can refresh their memory with their own answers. Looking back, I would have had the terra-cotta smashed out and had the chimney poured with a solid flue insulating material. It would be nice that when the liner rots out I can just get refunded and that’s the way I will proceed next time.

 
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davidmcbeth3
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Post by davidmcbeth3 » Sun. Mar. 05, 2023 5:00 pm

BlackBetty06 wrote:
Sun. Mar. 05, 2023 4:58 pm
You need the 316ti for coal. I’ve had this liner for a bit now and can see pock marks forming in it. I’m sure within a few years it will be eaten through. Make sure you get it in writing that the liner is warrantied for life burning coal insulated or not. That is what I did so when the liner rots through and they try and claim I did something wrong I can refresh their memory with their own answers. Looking back, I would have had the terra-cotta smashed out and had the chimney poured with a solid flue insulating material. It would be nice that when the liner rots out I can just get refunded and that’s the way I will proceed next time.

Can you define "a bit" ?

 
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BlackBetty06
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Posts: 603
Joined: Tue. Jan. 01, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Lancaster county PA
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Nut
Other Heating: Jotul 118b woodstove, dual fuel heat pump/condensing propane furnace

Post by BlackBetty06 » Sun. Mar. 05, 2023 5:07 pm

Two seasons burning strictly anthracite. Installed 3 years. Didn’t burn any coal this year. Propane is much cheaper and supplemented with wood in the woodstove. The liner certainly isn’t going to last super long unless I’m over reacting to what I see in the liner. Pics attached.

Attachments


 
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davidmcbeth3
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Coal Size/Type: nut/pea/anthra

Post by davidmcbeth3 » Sun. Mar. 05, 2023 5:38 pm

BlackBetty06 wrote:
Sun. Mar. 05, 2023 5:07 pm
Two seasons burning strictly anthracite. Installed 3 years. Didn’t burn any coal this year. Propane is much cheaper and supplemented with wood in the woodstove. The liner certainly isn’t going to last super long unless I’m over reacting to what I see in the liner. Pics attached.
Liner looks good.


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