Jotul 8 question

 
the duck
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Post by the duck » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 11:02 pm

Hello,
I use a Keystoker Koker-Lite to heat my 2,200 square foot, 2 story house. It does a good job overall, and I've been happy with it over the past three winters. I've been thinking about putting in a small hand fired stove in front of my existing fireplace, and using it to supplement the K-Lite during the coldest months, and ideally burning the same rice and buck that I use in the K-Lite. I was looking at a Jotul 8 (it's listed as a wood/coal model) on craigslist, and also a Jotul 507B. Anyone have any experience with either of these stoves and/or any recommendations or advice? My fireplace is in the living room which has pretty high, rafter ceilings, so my goal in supplementing is to alleviate some of the draftiness, and get the supplemental heat more consistently to the second floor.
Thanks for your time,
Matt


 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 11:09 pm

You want to burn a rice/buck mix in a hand fed? I dunno if that's realistic. It'll fall thru the grates. The smallest you can run in a hand fed is pea, nut size would be more ideal. Even if the rice/buck mix didn't fall thru it would be hard to get a hot burn out of it since combustion air would be so restricted.

 
the duck
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Post by the duck » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 9:56 am

Thanks - I wasn't sure if a hand fed could use that small a size. Any idea if I bought a ton of nut, if I could mix it in with my rice/buck mix in my stoker? I'd like one of the sizes to be intermixable with the others if possible.
Thanks for your time,
Matt

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 10:33 am

I'm pretty sure the nut size would jam the stoker up. I think even the pea size would cause problems. You could get away with putting a blanket of rice/buckwheat on top of the nut size in the hand fed for some real precision heat output control but you'll still lose much of it while clearing ash.

A stoker and hand fed can't really interchange coal sizes. The only exception would be a stoker that uses pea size and I think the only units that use pea size are the coal gun style boilers and the small European hand fed stoves.

Just buy a few bags of nut size for the hand fed to keep around when you use it. I think that would be the best solution, or store a half ton of bagged nut size in your basement. I like using two different sizes in my hand fed. I get my bin filled with bulk stove size and then keep a few bags of nut size on hand. :)

I do like your plan of putting a hand fed in the fire place. I think you'll love the radiant heat it produces.
Last edited by Lightning on Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
the duck
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Post by the duck » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 10:45 am

Thanks again - good information and very helpful as I've never used a hand fed before. When you say you buy "bulk stove size" along with the half ton of nut - what is the bulk stove size? Also, do you have any opinion about the Jotul 8 or 507B?
Thanks again,
Matt

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 10:58 am

My pleasure Matt,
"Stove size" is what I use mostly of in my hand fed furnace. It's considered the biggest size of anthracite to burn in a hand fed. Most pieces are the size of a closed fist. I get the stove size delivered in bulk form meaning it's not bagged, a guy shows up with 5 tons in a dump style truck and pours the whole 5 tons into my basement bin.

For better heat output control I like to blanket the stove size with smaller sizes since stove size is happiest when burning hotter faster. The smaller sized coal on top makes it possible slow down the burn while at the same time keeping the fuel bed healthy and free of dead spots. There are lots of cool tricks to manipulate a hand fed to make it do exactly what's desired which is a big part of what I enjoy about running a hand fed. I'm kinda geeky like that lol.

I haven't used the Jotule stoves but many on here have, hopefully they will stop by and chime in :)

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 11:15 am

I agree with all that Lee is telling you about coal sizes that should be used. The smallest sizes, like rice and barley, don't breath well and usually need forced air feed up through the firebed to keep the fire going. Get the size too small and your stove will be a very frustrating to use.

Size is rather important with coal stoves. Changing it not only means if it will, or won't, work with the stove's grate design, it can change how your stove respond for heat output.

Because we use it for cooking/baking, in addition to heating the back half of the house, I'm now using stove coal size during the daytime in my kitchen range because the larger size also has larger air spaces between chunks, so the firebed "breaths" better, therefore burns hotter. But, after dinner, I start refueling it with the smaller "nut" (chestnut) size because it helps slow the firebed to nighttime heating mode. Plus the smaller size has smaller spaces, so it fits more coal into the same space for a longer overnight burn time. If I try to use coal too small, it will fall through the spaces of the grate bar's teeth. Even with the majority of antique stoves, nut coal is the most common size the grates are designed to handle well.

Here's a chart to show the relationship of coal sizes.

Paul

Attachments

Coal_Sizes.jpg
.JPG | 125.9KB | Coal_Sizes.jpg


 
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Post by the duck » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 11:33 am

Thanks,
That all makes sense. I didn't add buck to the rice coal until last winter, and I did like the mix better - the bed seemed less dense and visually looked like it burned more evenly. Do either of you like a particular small hand fed stove brand/model? I'm mostly looking at used on craigslist. My two main criteria are compact and good radiant heat. I'd like to wheel it out of my living room on a flatbed cart in the spring, and reattach it to my fireplace flue in the fall, once I've upgraded my fireplace flue pipe.
Thanks for all the information,
Matt

 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 11:48 am

I would suggest the "Coal Chubby" stoves. Many people love them. They are easy to use and come in two sizes also with or without a warm air convection blower.

They are mainly a radiant stove and not extremely heavy to move. I think it'd be perfect. Another thing to consider is where the stove pipe breech is, I think you would want one that has a breech on the side instead of the top since you'll want a horizontal run of pipe into the fire place. Another option would be a Hitzer insert, they are beautiful too but compared to the chubby they depend more on blowers to push warm air out in front of it where the chubby is more of a radiant stove.

https://chubbystove.com

http://hitzer.com/our-products/stoves-furnaces/mo ... ace-insert

I haven't used either one, but if I were in the market for a fireplace stove, these are where I would start.
Last edited by Lightning on Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 11:51 am

the duck wrote:
Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 11:33 am
Thanks,
That all makes sense. I didn't add buck to the rice coal until last winter, and I did like the mix better - the bed seemed less dense and visually looked like it burned more evenly. Do either of you like a particular small hand fed stove brand/model? I'm mostly looking at used on craigslist. My two main criteria are compact and good radiant heat. I'd like to wheel it out of my living room on a flatbed cart in the spring, and reattach it to my fireplace flue in the fall, once I've upgraded my fireplace flue pipe.
Thanks for all the information,
Matt
That's a subject that gets debated (and berated) quite a lot on here.

I'm heavily biased towards antiques, especially if it says "Glenwood" on them. :D

And not just for looks. Some of the modern stoves are quite pretty. But, because there was so much coal stove competition in the early 1900s, which drove many coal manufacture's coal designs to be more efficient than the modern ones, I prefer the top of the line antiques, of which there are many still surviving.

If you have a good sized hand truck, it's not too difficult to move even the bigger size parlor stoves. It was very common in the old days to "put up the stove" - storing it away during warm weather - if living space is needed for other things. However, some find that, after spending a winter with a stove taking up space, it doesn't bother them to leave it in place, verses the hassle and potential mess of moving it twice a year, antique or modern. So, it often becomes a shelf, or plant stand in the off season.

Paul

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 11:58 am

Hello duck,
You mentioned your stoker was doing a good job heating your house. Why do you need another stove, to double your work load, and expense? I'm assuming your stoker is mounted in your cellar, and because you've found this forum, you've become a "coal craze" like most of us? ;), and want another play thing in the living area.

I envy you for having an operational fireplace, and would love to have one for the ambiance of a wood fire, (on occasion) but if more heat is required, install an insert. I think a coal insert would not only supply extra heat, but be very attractive too. Altho I'm pretty sure their capacity is less than a freestander tho, and also would require more cleaning/attention.

I guess you're not set on one particular type/brand of stove, (as of yet), and the mentioning of the Jotuls is because you 1st saw them offered in the classifieds? There is a plethora of opportunity at your disposal, with lots of options based on your requirements, such as heat out-put, maintenance, cost, and styling/appearance. One thing is for sure. You came to the right forum for advice, cause there are lots of members here with the experience and input to guide you in the right direction. Now that old man winter is knocking on our door, this site should become more engaged, so let the questions and discussions begin. :)

 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 11:59 am

I certainly can't disagree with that Paul, the antique stoves are beautiful :)

 
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Post by warminmn » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 12:07 pm

The Jotul 507 takes up very little space and would heat about the same area as the Chubby Jr. There are some real good posts on the 507's and Jr's if you use the search function here. The 507 might need new cement inside as I remember reading they burn out the liners.

the larger Chubby costs about the same and would heat a larger area. Any of those 3 would be easy to move seasonally, as well as many other stoves.

 
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Post by the duck » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 12:15 pm

Definitely satisfied with my K-Lite in the basement, over the past three winters - better heat quality and cost vs. fuel oil. The fireplace is great - so nice to have on these October evenings - and my wife doesn't want it sacrificed in favor of a hand fed, but she may be swayed if I press her on it. The reason for the hand fed over the fireplace, is primarily for good radiant heat in a high-ceiling room. The fireplace is much lower heat output, and really more of an ambiance thing than a heat generator. Overall, I'm thinking that a radiant hand fed will take some of the workload from the K-Lite and also better move some of the heat to the second floor.

I had forgotten about the Chubby, that's been on my list too. There's a guy locally selling one, so that might be a good option for me. Hoping to find something that is primarily radiant, without the need for electricity and blowers - good power outage heat. The only antique I've been looking at is the Jotul 507B (not really antique, late '70's), and the Godwin (sp?) mini parlor stove. Small, not too "frilly" (our house is fairly "modern" looking), good radiant output, and back exit flue to align w/the fireplace are my primary criteria right now - and of course, I may be overlooking things too...

Would love to be able to use the fireplace in fall and spring, and lean on the hand fed December through March. Doesn't seem like an option once I've changed my flue pipe though (going down from a 10" to a 6".

Thanks again for all the input! - Matt

 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 12:55 pm

the duck wrote:
Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 12:15 pm
Would love to be able to use the fireplace in fall and spring, and lean on the hand fed December through March. Doesn't seem like an option once I've changed my flue pipe though (going down from a 10" to a 6".
Yes I agree. You don't wanna have to reinstall the pipe into the chimney flue and pack whatever around it for a seal every year and move stoves around. I mean I suppose you could, if you really wanted to but it could be a bit of a chore. The simplest solution I would lean towards is a stove that would sit up on your fire place hearth for minimal space usage and could be permanently installed. Could you post some pics of your fireplace area so we can see what you have to work with?


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