Coal Stove for a Tiny House

 
NoSmoke
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Post by NoSmoke » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 5:38 am

I can't do it, I just cannot do it...I have used coal to heat my home for 26 years, but now have a pellet stove in our Tiny House due to circumstances beyond our control. I would like to go with a coal stove, but its Tiny Size is daunting. It is well insulated, and small being an 1100 sq ft, 2 story Foursquare home.

YEARSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ago I had an old Surdiac stove that worked well, but that is long gone, but its physical size, and low BTU's would be perfect, but I do not think they make them anymore. Does any one know? Or at least, is something available now that is similar?

After a week of running the !@#$%^&* pallet stove, it seems a 38,000 btu appliance would be about right. Maybe up to 50,000 btu, but gosh, nothing higher.


 
KingCoal
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
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Post by KingCoal » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 5:57 am

Warm Morning 414 till there any other suggestion

Your post concerns me greatly because I live in a 1300 sf four square that hasn't a stitch of insulation in it that I've been making plans to insulate

As it is I get to play with base heaters , burners, double heaters to my hearts content

Guess the insulation is out of the question for me, thanks for saving me from myself

steve

 
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CoalJockey
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Post by CoalJockey » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 6:32 am

I don’t know if your heart-set on a hand fed stove, but I think either Keystoker or Leisure Line made a mini-stoker stove I think they called the “lil heater” ... no idea what the BTU rating Would be though. If you could buy one small enough a stoker Stove May be the ticket because you can idle them waaaaayyyyyy down and they will continue to hold fire.

 
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CoalJockey
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Post by CoalJockey » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 6:38 am

Here ya go... sure is a cute little stove.

https://leisurelinestove.com/product/lilheater/

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 8:22 am

NoSmoke wrote:
Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 5:38 am
I can't do it, I just cannot do it...I have used coal to heat my home for 26 years, but now have a pellet stove in our Tiny House due to circumstances beyond our control. I would like to go with a coal stove, but its Tiny Size is daunting. It is well insulated, and small being an 1100 sq ft, 2 story Foursquare home.

YEARSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ago I had an old Surdiac stove that worked well, but that is long gone, but its physical size, and low BTU's would be perfect, but I do not think they make them anymore. Does any one know? Or at least, is something available now that is similar?

After a week of running the !@#$%^&* pallet stove, it seems a 38,000 btu appliance would be about right. Maybe up to 50,000 btu, but gosh, nothing higher.

If it fits with your layout, that's in the BTU range of,... a range. :D

Most antique coal kitchen ranges are 35 - 45 BTU, and you can do all your cooking/baking with the same heat, so there's an additional savings by eliminating whatever form of energy you use for cooking now.

Paul

 
NoSmoke
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Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
Baseburners & Antiques: Woods and Bishop Antique Pot Bellied Stove
Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 6:39 pm

CoalJockey wrote:
Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 6:38 am
Here ya go... sure is a cute little stove.

https://leisurelinestove.com/product/lilheater/
Yes...I really like that stove. It seems to be the comparable coal stove to the pellet stove I have.

 
NoSmoke
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Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
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Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 6:48 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:
Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 8:22 am
If it fits with your layout, that's in the BTU range of,... a range. :D

Most antique coal kitchen ranges are 35 - 45 BTU, and you can do all your cooking/baking with the same heat, so there's an additional savings by eliminating whatever form of energy you use for cooking now.

Paul
It is possible. It would take some rearranging of the flues as when the chimney was replaced in this old house a few years ago, the "parlor" thimble was left out as it was not used in the last 50 years. I would have to replace that thimble through the masonry/tiled chimney as a kitchen range would look out of place in a living room where the thimble is now. But that would not be that difficult.

Katie and I have run into several of them, and considered them over the years. We considered them for back-up cooking more then energy savings, but I understand where you are coming from. It is always nice to have options.

By the way, we are not opposed to older appliances for cooking. This is what we have now, a propane unit, but built in 1917. We have no problems cooking on antiques! :yes:
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KLook
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Post by KLook » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 7:55 pm

If you need a coal range, I may have one for you. I need to move it out of the house I sold to my son in maine. It is a Kalamazoo made in 1937, somewhere I have the original receipt for it....$15 I think. Green and Cream colored. The stove did not have a fire in it for at least the last 48 years. Maybe longer. It has set in the back boiler room of my house for 15 years at least. I acquired it thru the estate of my wifes grandmother and had plans....then I moved south....

Kevin

 
rberq
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Post by rberq » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 9:27 pm

NoSmoke wrote:
Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 5:38 am
... well insulated, and small being an 1100 sq ft, 2 story Foursquare home … a 38,000 btu appliance would be about right. Maybe up to 50,000 btu, but gosh, nothing higher.
1,100 square feet is small but not “tiny”. That’s about the same area as the part of my house heated with coal – like yours, two stories and pretty well insulated. My DS 1300 circulator is rated at 50 or 55,000 btu, so in the real world puts out maybe 10,000 to 30,000 and is just about right for the space. The Harman (Legacy) Mark I is rated 48,000 btu – might likewise be adequate for you.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 10:05 pm

The Crane 404 would work,it can also double as a cook top when fired up good.

 
NoSmoke
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Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 4:14 am

KingCoal wrote:
Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 5:57 am
Warm Morning 414 till there any other suggestion

Your post concerns me greatly because I live in a 1300 sf four square that hasn't a stitch of insulation in it that I've been making plans to insulate

As it is I get to play with base heaters , burners, double heaters to my hearts content

Guess the insulation is out of the question for me, thanks for saving me from myself

steve
Hey no problem! :-)

It is even worse then that though for you, because I have not got around to super-insulating this place yet. I have a few priorities to get done first, and then I will really button up this house. For instance I have the insulation to put in the attic by least a foot, and I have not had time to bank the foundation with hay either. Both of those things will really tighten up the house.

My biggest question on insulation is on what to do with the main floor? Some say to insulate it, and some say not. I have pipes in the basement, so it must remain above 32 degrees, but with a dirt floor and fieldstone foundation, it gives off plenty of 57 degree heat. Still 57 degree floors is cooler then my 70 degree human-derived preferred temperature, so the floors seem "cold" and I want to cure that.

Still the purpose of insulation is conservation. Some people install expensive outdoor wood-boilers and compensate heat loss by walloping the BTU's to a house using "free" firewood, whereas others use cheap coal. Myself? I want to use a combination of conservation and cheap coal. No one is wrong here, just different ways of staying warm.

My goal with this home is to be super-insulated, only because growing up my Grandparents always complained how cold the house was, and how much wood/oil/coal it took to heat the place. I want to show that it never needed to be that way. They spent more then 500 gallons in oil just heating this place a year, yet it only cost me $500 in 2018 monies to super-insulate it. :?:

 
NoSmoke
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Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 4:29 am

rberq wrote:
Sat. Oct. 13, 2018 9:27 pm
1,100 square feet is small but not “tiny”. That’s about the same area as the part of my house heated with coal – like yours, two stories and pretty well insulated. My DS 1300 circulator is rated at 50 or 55,000 btu, so in the real world puts out maybe 10,000 to 30,000 and is just about right for the space. The Harman (Legacy) Mark I is rated 48,000 btu – might likewise be adequate for you.
I do not mean this in any disrespect, so I am trying to follow your logic here. If I am using a pellet stove now with a stated rating of 38,000 btu's, and it has 70% effeciency as stated by this site, then wouldn't a 55,000 btu coal stove at 80% effeciency, as stated by this site, be overkill?

As I type this, the temp is 30 degrees outside, yet it is 72 downstairs, and 70 upstairs with the pellet boiler running at its lowest setting. I tried running the pellet stove slower, but any lower than it is now and the fire goes out. Would that mean though that if my pellet stove is rated at 38,000 btu's, it is actually putting out a mere 10,000 btu's? If I did the math right, that would be about 1700, 100 watt incadescent lightbulbs?

 
rberq
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Post by rberq » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 9:28 am

NoSmoke wrote:
Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 4:29 am
If I am using a pellet stove now with a stated rating of 38,000 btu's, and it has 70% efficiency as stated by this site, then wouldn't a 55,000 btu coal stove at 80% efficiency, as stated by this site, be overkill?

... if my pellet stove is rated at 38,000 btu's, it is actually putting out a mere 10,000 btu's? If I did the math right, that would be about 1700, 100 watt incandescent lightbulbs?
I suggested those two particular stoves because they match the BTU rating you mentioned in your original post, 50,000, also because my coal heating load sounds similar to yours. For practical everyday use, a coal stove “rated” by the manufacturer at 50,000 BTU, puts out far less heat than that – I don’t want to say the manufacturers are lying, so I’ll call them exuberantly optimistic. You can't physically get enough coal through them to produce the rated heat, and you can forget that 80% efficiency – I’d peg it at 65% overall.

As for a 38,000 BTU pellet stove, I have no idea what the comparable optimism and efficiency numbers are. If it is maintaining your house at 70 degrees indoor at its lowest setting, with 30 degrees outdoor, it sounds pretty much ideal; but still maybe too small for when outdoor temps drop to minus 20 and windy.

By my math, 10,000 BTU would equate to 30 or 35 hundred-watt incandescent bulbs. You could adjust the heat by screwing and unscrewing bulbs as needed. ;)

 
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Sunny Boy
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Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 10:09 am

Better to have a coal stove that seems on the too-large side.

Unlike wood and pellet stoves, coal stoves can be idled down much better. All that happens is they run that much longer between refueling and ash clearing. Then when it gets really bitter cold you have "enough" stove.

Choosing a heating source should be planned for the "coldest" conditions, not the "average cold" conditions. ;)

Paul

 
NoSmoke
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Location: Mid Coast Maine
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
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Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler/Englander Pellet Stove/Perkins 4.108 Cogeneration diesel

Post by NoSmoke » Mon. Oct. 15, 2018 7:51 am

rberq wrote:
Sun. Oct. 14, 2018 9:28 am
I suggested those two particular stoves because they match the BTU rating you mentioned in your original post, 50,000, also because my coal heating load sounds similar to yours. For practical everyday use, a coal stove “rated” by the manufacturer at 50,000 BTU, puts out far less heat than that – I don’t want to say the manufacturers are lying, so I’ll call them exuberantly optimistic. You can't physically get enough coal through them to produce the rated heat, and you can forget that 80% efficiency – I’d peg it at 65% overall.

As for a 38,000 BTU pellet stove, I have no idea what the comparable optimism and efficiency numbers are. If it is maintaining your house at 70 degrees indoor at its lowest setting, with 30 degrees outdoor, it sounds pretty much ideal; but still maybe too small for when outdoor temps drop to minus 20 and windy.

By my math, 10,000 BTU would equate to 30 or 35 hundred-watt incandescent bulbs. You could adjust the heat by screwing and unscrewing bulbs as needed. ;)
A sincere thank you for your explanation. The written word can sometimes make it sound like an angst was directed at someone when it was not, and I tried to make it clear that I was in no way challenging you, or showing disrespect. Thank you for realizing that and not being upset by my question.

As for BTU's on heating appliance placarding...yes I am all too familiar with marketing spin.

After heating this house with that !@#$%^&* pellet stove, what we are finding is that it heats just fine, another 30 degree morning here and 71 down stairs and 70 upstairs at its lowest setting, BUT our feet are freezing. I think we are going to insulate the first floor from underneath with insulation, and of course, banking the house with hay.


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