Coal Stoves and Tiny House

NoSmoke
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Location: Mid Coast Maine

Post By: NoSmoke » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 6:26 am

Katie and I are in discussion on where to place the coal stove in our Tiny House, and was wondering on people's thoughts on this.

As background, the house is 1100 square feet, and is a 2 story, foursquare house (18x22 with 16x10 attached bathroom on the bottom floor). The chimney itself is in the middle of the house, brand new, made out of masonry and is also lined, going from basement to roofline. Thimbles are only on the bottom floor, and then in the basement. The tiny house is now 100% insulated except in the floors.

The house orginally had a parlor stove, a kitchen stove, a stove on the second floor (though the thimble was not renewed with the new chimney), and a coal stove in the basement.

It would be nice to have our pot bellied stove on the first floor for convenience, but it would take up a lot of room in our 12 x 18 livingroom! It might also get uncomfortably hot on that floor, and on the second floor where the kids sleep. This house is of the farmhouse-cottage style...no ceilings between the first and second floor.

We could also place the stove in the basement. It is less convienient, but give us more living space in this tiny home. But would the stove heat the first floor above it, then enough heat rise to the second floor to heat it for the kids? No one knows because this house has never had insulation before.

As a side note: for a backup, we do plan to install a Renai Heater I have kicking around on the botoom floor, for the times we are gone. If that proves inadaquate, we plan on installing a second one upstairs. Still we would like to heat as much as possible with coal.

This is our stove, but as it looks in our current home.
DSCN5237.JPG

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freetown fred
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Post By: freetown fred » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 6:41 am

Some pix would be real helpful N. Not following the "no ceilings"?????????????????

CapeCoaler
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Post By: CapeCoaler » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 7:08 am

The second floor "floor" is the ceiling...
No extra material to make a ceiling for the first floor...
On the bottom of the second floor 'floor joists'...
Function first, pretty later...
Plus the floors upstairs are warmer...
The basement stove could work...
If you have a large grate over top of it...

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freetown fred
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Post By: freetown fred » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 8:09 am

Damn C, still want some in progress pix!!! LOL

Bubbalowe
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Post By: Bubbalowe » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 9:00 am

freetown fred wrote:
Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 6:41 am
Some pix would be real helpful N. Not following the "no ceilings"?????????????????
What a typical basement looks like looking up, no finished ceiling. Ornate cast iron floor grates were used once to allow heat to rise to second floors and believe this is what is being asked. Thinking it would be good option to heat a second floor. IMHO.

franco b
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Post By: franco b » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 2:13 pm

A stove in the basement rarely works out. The suggestion to install a grate above it is good, but it also should have a sheet metal surround to direct the air similar to the old hot air furnaces. Return air is still a problem unless there is a double surround drawing the return from the outer portion of the floor grate.

My advice would be a second stove in the living area, but of a compact circulator design, enabling close clearances to not intrude into the room too much and better heat distribution. A Franco Belge or Surdiac should work. Small firebox means 8 hour tending, but very fast tending time. Long burns at low heat output. Cheap to buy as well. Use the pot belly in the basement to supplement in very cold weather, if needed, or to warm basement if used for workshop.

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freetown fred
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Post By: freetown fred » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 5:19 pm

Sooooo, just an old design house--hell, ceilings are like caviar up this way!! :lol:
Bubbalowe wrote:
Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 9:00 am
What a typical basement looks like looking up, no finished ceiling. Ornate cast iron floor grates were used once to allow heat to rise to second floors and believe this is what is being asked. Thinking it would be good option to heat a second floor. IMHO.

NoSmoke
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
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Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler (Back-up)/Pellet Stove
Location: Mid Coast Maine

Post By: NoSmoke » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 5:54 pm

I will try and get some update photos. but the place is still in rough shape and will be for awhile.

We never had a real plan to go with cottage style ceilings, it just sort of ended up that way. The second floor had a 2 inch sag to it, so it took removing the ceiling to see what was going on with the second floor stringers. I thought they were broken, but amazingly they weren't.

My Grandparent's had removed a load bearing wall on the first floor, and the second floor stringers were nothing but 2 x 5's, 24 inches on center, spanning a full 18 feet! Pressing down on the second floor was a load bearing wall. It took a bit, but (2) 20 ton jacks got the 2 inch sag out of the floor.

I sawed out some more 2x5's and sistered them onto the side of the existing stringers, added a beam to shorten the span distance, and shored up the basement with posts. I must say, having a sawmill has really been great because of all the custom sized lumber in this house. Who builds things out of 2x5's? And interior walls...2-3/4" X 2"???

Of course, who makes their own clapboard siding on a sawmill out of Eastern Hemlock? (NoSmoke; in case you are wondering...and it actually looks pretty good).

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NoSmoke
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
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Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler (Back-up)/Pellet Stove
Location: Mid Coast Maine

Post By: NoSmoke » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 7:04 pm

Well here are a few photos for you to show what those homemade Eastern Hemlock clapboards look like...
DSCN0360.JPG

NoSmoke
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Location: Mid Coast Maine

Post By: NoSmoke » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 7:08 pm

Here is what the underside of the second floor looks like. You can see there is no ceiling and where I sistered on (2) additional 2x5's to the floor stringers to stiffen the upstairs floors up. Eventually the underside will be painted white with new lights and stuff. Even the kitchen cabinets are just temporary until I can build new ones.
DSCN0363.JPG

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freetown fred
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Post By: freetown fred » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 7:52 pm

Thanx for the pix N--real nice project--now you're in my world!! :)

Qtown1835
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Post By: Qtown1835 » Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 7:56 am

Love a good house project. Looks like you are making some good headway. New clapboards look real nice.

Rob R.
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Post By: Rob R. » Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 8:48 am

franco b wrote:
Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 2:13 pm
A stove in the basement rarely works out. The suggestion to install a grate above it is good, but it also should have a sheet metal surround to direct the air similar to the old hot air furnaces. Return air is still a problem unless there is a double surround drawing the return from the outer portion of the floor grate.

My advice would be a second stove in the living area, but of a compact circulator design, enabling close clearances to not intrude into the room too much and better heat distribution. A Franco Belge or Surdiac should work. Small firebox means 8 hour tending, but very fast tending time. Long burns at low heat output. Cheap to buy as well. Use the pot belly in the basement to supplement in very cold weather, if needed, or to warm basement if used for workshop.
I agree. The chances of effectively heating a 2 story house from the basement are slim...especially in Northern Maine. My 1910 house had a big coal furnace in the basement with a large floor grate, and they still had at least one other stove on the first floor.

A small stove in the living room and the pot belly in the basement should do a reasonable job, and your gas heaters will pick up the slack when needed.

NoSmoke
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Joined: Sun. Oct. 14, 2012 7:52 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: New Yoker WC90
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Coal Size/Type: Stove/Nut/Pea Anthracite
Other Heating: Munchkin LP Boiler (Back-up)/Pellet Stove
Location: Mid Coast Maine

Post By: NoSmoke » Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 6:12 pm

Qtown1835 wrote:
Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 7:56 am
Love a good house project. Looks like you are making some good headway. New clapboards look real nice.
Yes, I started on this about a month ago and really have got some things done on it. It has sat vacant for a decade, so everything is a bit rusty.

Electrical wise, I brought it from 6 outlets in the baseboards, no switches...just pull-string lights in every room, and tube and knot wiring to 1200 feet of romex, 50 outlets, switches for every room, and even wired in a "green switch" for safety and electrical conservation.

What blows me away though is the lack of insulation. My Grandparents spent tons of money on oil every year (or firewood, or back in the old days, coal), and yet to insulate this entire house it has only cost me $500. That is 2018 prices. They spent more on oil in 1980 then what it would have cost to insulate this place. Now it has r-16 walls, and r-49 in the attc. Katie went a little crazy with the spray foam and consumed 20 cans of the stuff, (no joke) and counting!

With the framing we shored everything up. The orginal builder must have had an out of control fetish for 6 foot lumber because despite being a 2 story house, not one stud goes from sole plate to top plate. Every 6 feet they just nailed one on beside the first, and up they went. Every stud run, from sole plate to top plate, looks like the Grinch's chimney. Up 6 feet, off set by 2 inches, up six feet, then offset back by 2 inches...rinse and repeat.

We extended the bathroom into the old kitchen, removed the kitchen and put it in the old living room, then dragged the cold water and hot water tanks upstairs and plumbed everything in. I was afraid the pump would not push water after 10 years of sitting under water 80 feet deep, but it roared to life. We now have water and the drains hooked up.

Now its time to finish up the siding. I got (3) of the 6 walls done today, but granted they were the shortest walls.

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warminmn
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Post By: warminmn » Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 7:08 pm

Sounds and looks like a great start!

30 years ago I got great deals on 7 foot 2x4's and everything I built I used them. I still chuckle at things I did with them, so I understand the 6 foot ones you ran into.

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