Conundrum

 
Bubbalowe
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Post by Bubbalowe » Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 11:03 am

Seeking opinions between a Hitzer 3095 or leftover Vermont Castings Vigilant II coal stove. Currently have an Encore and growing weary of feeding it. The stoves are comparable in cost but the Vigilant wins the beauty contest.


 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 12:52 pm

If my memory serves me==I'm believing the 30-95 is a lot simpler to operate. I'm sure you'll get more replies.

 
Bubbalowe
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Post by Bubbalowe » Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 1:31 pm

The hopper on the 30-95 is a plus. Need a rear exhaust also. The local dealer has both, won't push either. It will be sitting in living room so guess I want to hear the VC has same tanklike quality as Hitzer. Have always appreciated "pretty' cast iron or soapstone stoves for a parlor stove over the fabricated look.

 
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Post by franco b » Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 5:06 pm

Each has clear advantage of the other.

Fast tending versus about 15-20 min. for the VC. The hopper a big plus.
VC better looking but probably a bit messier tending.
Better heat exchange on the VC without fan, but something else to fiddle with. More involved cleaning.
VC is cast iron so rust is not a concern. Exhaust, reversible, top or rear.

The hopper on the 30-95 is the deciding factor. Both need some poking from above, but less with the Hitzer. I think the VC ashpan hold a bit more, but both are too small.

 
Bubbalowe
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Post by Bubbalowe » Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 8:52 am

Luckily neither is a bad choice. Was not looking at fan equipped so heat exchange noted. I took damper and bricks out of a masonry chimney and lowered double wall stainless flue down so need rear exhaust below 34", VC with short legs should work. Going to stove shop this Saturday, will post which comes home.
Thanks for comments

 
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Post by franco b » Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 9:12 am

No wet coal with that stainless chimney, and think about how to clean when you install the stove.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 9:21 am

One thing I've considered with VC's...even their wood stoves...is the gasket replacement needed every so often. I'd love to have one...even a wood burner...and I wouldn't mind changing gaskets on occasion as it's simply part of maintenance with their stoves. I'm talking about a total tear down and re-gasket of the entire stove. However, what is scary to me is a gasket going bad, especially with a coal stove of theirs, and then the stove over firing because of the air leak. A leak under a coal fire could spell disaster from what I understand from reading some posts here, so it's really something to consider.

I've also read that with some of the VC coal stoves they changed the air controls. That is, the primary and secondary...seems I read that in a certain year they removed the way the air flows or something, which ever it was...primary or secondary...but you can't control it as well as in their other coal stoves. I'd like more information on this myself just to be sure of what I thought I read.


Just another reason, for me at least, when considering a modern coal stove that I'd likely consider the Hitzer or Harman/Legacy stoves over the VC's given the above concerns.


Note:

My comments should not be taken as "the gospel". These are things I thought I'd read mentioned on this forum. I am hoping that someone with more knowledge of VC stoves can confirm or deny my concerns. I only mentioned the complete tear-down of the stove in case someone is inclined to do it on their own. Me, I'm not afraid to tear into things, but it is something to consider when making a choice. The fewer moving parts, and the fewer pieces needing assembled, the more simple the stove is to use. Most soapstone and cast iron stoves have a lot of parts needing gaskets versus a steel stove.


 
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Post by Hoytman » Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 9:40 am

I think I know where a left over new/old stock VC Vigilant II is as well. I just don't know if both air controls fully work on that model.


Is the Vigilant II the same as the 2310? Just thinking out loud. Should be easy enough to look up.

I wouldn't be afraid of getting a new/old stock stove because I know what to expect with regard to gasket maintenance, but if I bought a used one I'd want to completely replace every gasket before using. They are built like a tank though.

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 9:49 am

I'm guessin the bottom line is---ya lookin for pretty or simplicity with the tried & true 30-95???

 
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Post by franco b » Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 9:50 am

Hoytman wrote:
Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 9:21 am
However, what is scary to me is a gasket going bad, especially with a coal stove of theirs, and then the stove over firing because of the air leak. A leak under a coal fire could spell disaster from what I understand from reading some posts here, so it's really something to consider.
The Vigilant is no different than any other stoves with gaskets. The only one to be concerned with is the one on the ash door, just as with any stove. A failing gasket does not fail all at once. It leaks a little and holding a low fire becomes noticeably harder. No runaway fire and very easy to replace. Any air leak above the fire will slow it down, if anything.

 
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Post by Bubbalowe » Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 10:01 am

A seller on E-Bay currently selling NOS Vigilant II below $1500 with free shipping. Located in New York. These stoves were selling over $2000.00 couple years ago.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 10:45 am

Thanks for the clarification Franco b.

 
charlesosborne2002
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 1:52 pm

Bubba I recently bought one of those Vigilant 2310's to which you refer, on eBay--I was planning on getting a DS Comfort Max 75, but could not resist the Vigilant ll for $1495. Used ones go for a lot more all the time. I think this seller had 15 of them, and is an established retailer who does provide warranty care with it. I have not fired mine up yet.
By the way, the distance shipper wrecked the one I bought, but the local delivery shippers did not even try to deliver--they sent it back and it was replaced with a perfect one immediately. That is a reliable seller.
Beauty is not the only factor, but it is a factor, especially if you ever sell your house. The Vigilant makes a charming fireplace with wood, even though EPA does not let them advertise that any more. Of course, fireplaces are not efficient heat, but they sell houses, and guests love them on holidays--and the Vigilant probably is much more efficient for heat than a traditional fireplace is.
I love the top load--just pour it in, and I am getting on in years, so that is a plus, but if this is a tight fit in your fireplace, that might not be such a good thing. Getting it forward into the room saves more of the heat radiance as well, as does a back heat shield. My previous stove (wood) had a heat exchange air chamber over the fire, so the top was not hot enough for cooking--the Vigilant can cook on top using Dutch ovens, crocks (with heat tamer shield), roasters, kettles.
Take every little detail in the manual for installation and operation very seriously and meticulously--almost all the great advice here that I have received was in the manual to start with (tips for load, reload, maintenance, etc.) The mistakes people mention were in the manual in most cases. For instance, the 2310 has updraft or side/back draft modes--if you open the updraft damper and primary air intake 5 minutes before opening any doors (loading fuel, etc.), as the manual says, I think you are unlikely to get any explosive puff backs from volatile gas buildup when you open the top or front. Also, the manual says burn small wood fires for a couple of weeks when it is new. I understand this from using iron skillets and other pots--if you just stick them over a hot fire when new, the bottom will buckle upward or downward in the center, and never be flat again. Some suggestions here, however, were not in the manual.
Bubbalowe wrote:
Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 10:01 am
A seller on E-Bay currently selling NOS Vigilant II below $1500 with free shipping. Located in New York. These stoves were selling over $2000.00 couple years ago.

 
charlesosborne2002
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 1:57 pm

p.s Shipping was indeed included, whereas it was up to $300 on other stoves.
charlesosborne2002 wrote:
Wed. Sep. 12, 2018 1:52 pm
Bubba I recently bought one of those Vigilant 2310's to which you refer, on eBay--I was planning on getting a DS Comfort Max 75, but could not resist the Vigilant ll for $1495. Used ones go for a lot more all the time. I think this seller had 15 of them, and is an established retailer who does provide warranty care with it. I have not fired mine up yet.
By the way, the distance shipper wrecked the one I bought, but the local delivery shippers did not even try to deliver--they sent it back and it was replaced with a perfect one immediately. That is a reliable seller.
Beauty is not the only factor, but it is a factor, especially if you ever sell your house. The Vigilant makes a charming fireplace with wood, even though EPA does not let them advertise that any more. Of course, fireplaces are not efficient heat, but they sell houses, and guests love them on holidays--and the Vigilant probably is much more efficient for heat than a traditional fireplace is.
I love the top load--just pour it in, and I am getting on in years, so that is a plus, but if this is a tight fit in your fireplace, that might not be such a good thing. Getting it forward into the room saves more of the heat radiance as well, as does a back heat shield. My previous stove (wood) had a heat exchange air chamber over the fire, so the top was not hot enough for cooking--the Vigilant can cook on top using Dutch ovens, crocks (with heat tamer shield), roasters, kettles.
Take every little detail in the manual for installation and operation very seriously and meticulously--almost all the great advice here that I have received was in the manual to start with (tips for load, reload, maintenance, etc.) The mistakes people mention were in the manual in most cases. For instance, the 2310 has updraft or side/back draft modes--if you open the updraft damper and primary air intake 5 minutes before opening any doors (loading fuel, etc.), as the manual says, I think you are unlikely to get any explosive puff backs from volatile gas buildup when you open the top or front. Also, the manual says burn small wood fires for a couple of weeks when it is new. I understand this from using iron skillets and other pots--if you just stick them over a hot fire when new, the bottom will buckle upward or downward in the center, and never be flat again. Some suggestions here, however, were not in the manual.

 
Bubbalowe
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Post by Bubbalowe » Thu. Sep. 13, 2018 8:39 am

Thanks Charles. Went ahead and pulled the trigger last night on the VC 2310. The "local" stove dealer is an hour away, needed sales tax, and was priced slightly higher so it does come down to dollars. If it wasn't about money I would just keep giving it to the utility companies and turn the thermostat on the wall. Hopefully can get some pictures up putting it in.


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