emmissions

 
william shaver
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Post by william shaver » Tue. Sep. 04, 2018 12:58 pm

does stack emissions from burning wood or anthracite coal exceed that of home heating oil.


 
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Post by franco b » Tue. Sep. 04, 2018 1:29 pm

From what I have read, anthracite is similar to heating oil, but cleaner than wood.

CO2 is higher with coal, but is that harmful? Burning anything is probably not good, but the alternative is probably starving or freezing to death. Future alternatives will come in time.

 
william shaver
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Post by william shaver » Tue. Sep. 04, 2018 2:01 pm

looking for alternative to a logwood I currently use... oil/coal.... I remember keystoker made a powerfeed warm air used pulverized rice... vs anthravcite....do they still exist.

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Tue. Sep. 04, 2018 3:28 pm

If emissions are measured in pounds of CO2 per pound of fuel the answer is an easy yes vs. oil. And on first guess, BTU for BTU, about the same as for wood (on a dry basis).

1 ton of 86% carbon anthracite generates a whopping 3.22 tons of CO2 gas (for the case of complete combustion). For fuel oil I think its only about 44% of that, pound for pound. I also believe that oil generates only about 70% of coals CO2 emissions on a BTU for BTU basis (as opposed to pound for pound).

Wood decays naturally (effectively burns very slowly in the presence of the oxygen within the air) to evolve CO2, so it's CO2 pounds will get released at the exact same level whether simply left to rot away over a few years or more of time, or burned to instantly make heat. In the long run it doesn't matter. So wood burning is considered to be CO2 neutral.

 
william shaver
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Post by william shaver » Fri. Sep. 07, 2018 9:02 am

thanks for your points on this.... am trying to find another replacement for a logwood cof 22... just looking at best options... one I can have an oil burner on , coal or wood... logwood is out of biz now... Yukon a defenate no... keystoker A80 not entirely sold on it... can't burn wood .... but the power feed is interesting... in it lets you go for 5 days or so... i'm never away any more than that...

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Fri. Sep. 07, 2018 9:14 am

Good decision on the YUKON W!!! To many of them sittin in fields around here!! :)

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Fri. Sep. 07, 2018 9:28 am

william shaver wrote:
Fri. Sep. 07, 2018 9:02 am
thanks for your points on this.... am trying to find another replacement for a logwood cof 22... just looking at best options... one I can have an oil burner on , coal or wood... logwood is out of biz now... Yukon a defenate no... keystoker A80 not entirely sold on it... can't burn wood .... but the power feed is interesting... in it lets you go for 5 days or so... i'm never away any more than that...
Newmac makes wood/oil/coal unit


 
william shaver
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Post by william shaver » Fri. Sep. 07, 2018 9:32 am

whats the price on it, is it still made down east in nova scotia...

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Fri. Sep. 07, 2018 9:40 am

william shaver wrote:
Fri. Sep. 07, 2018 9:32 am
whats the price on it, is it still made down east in nova scotia...
They have website and dealers list, that's all I know.

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Fri. Sep. 07, 2018 9:48 am

Interestingly enough, propane produces almost as much CO2 as does coal, on a BTU for BTU basis. A few percentage points less at best. The best fuel to burn with regard to CO2 emissions is natural gas, and oil is only perhaps 10% worse than natural gas. I was correct in assuming that BTU fro BTU wood and coal are identical. If anything, wood is a percentage point more CO2 polluting than coal. KWH for KWH is merely another way of expressing BTU for BTU.

Pounds CO2 per KWH.png
.PNG | 55.7KB | Pounds CO2 per KWH.png

 
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Post by william shaver » Fri. Sep. 07, 2018 10:12 am

yes thanks for input...

 
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Post by charlesosborne2002 » Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 10:58 am

Rather than measuring by the pound of fuel, isn't the important question the amount of CO2 per BTU? (How many pounds of CO2 to heat the house where you want it?) I don't know these figures but I assume you can Google them. I suspect the amount of CO2 depends mainly on the amount of carbon, as the amount of oxygen (the other part of CO2) is what controls the speed of burning.

Also, I would want to know the other emissions--the toxic ones like sulfur or other particles that might irritate. The amount of carbon determines the amount of BTUs, but the other ingredients determine the other pollution. Electric space heaters seem clean, but the electricity is usually made from ghastly amounts of the cheapest coal. Still, it pollutes less to use bituminous coal at home than to use electricity made from the same coal--because much of the power is lost in generating and transmitting it. (That is why EPA wants to restrict coal for electricity plants, but not for homes.) The only coal available in my area is anthracite, but I would not prefer to use the cheaper bituminous because of the other pollutants which cover everything on the property, as well as the wider environment.

New power plants (or renovated old ones) can have processes to reduce CO2--what they really do is extract it and hide it somewhere (or sell it to somebody who wants it). Such processes are not feasible for home use. If there were effective filters for the other particles, for home use, I am sure we would have heard of them. Any useful filter in the flue would choke the draft, and there is no efficient known way to remove the bad stuff in coal or any other natural products before burning them.
lsayre wrote:
Tue. Sep. 04, 2018 3:28 pm
If emissions are measured in pounds of CO2 per pound of fuel the answer is an easy yes vs. oil. And on first guess, BTU for BTU, about the same as for wood (on a dry basis).

1 ton of 86% carbon anthracite generates a whopping 3.22 tons of CO2 gas (for the case of complete combustion). For fuel oil I think its only about 44% of that, pound for pound. I also believe that oil generates only about 70% of coals CO2 emissions on a BTU for BTU basis (as opposed to pound for pound).

Wood decays naturally (effectively burns very slowly in the presence of the oxygen within the air) to evolve CO2, so it's CO2 pounds will get released at the exact same level whether simply left to rot away over a few years or more of time, or burned to instantly make heat. In the long run it doesn't matter. So wood burning is considered to be CO2 neutral.

 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 11:17 am

Unfortunately I cannot cite the source or the details so you can take my word for it or not. A coal appliance tested with the same EPA test used for PM in woodburners was many times lower than the wood. From personal experience I wouldn't doubt it was lower than oil. Keep in mind this is one appliance and it's only for PM.

As far as the CO2 to the best of my knowledge unfortunately coal is the highest. Wood is special case for CO2 because it's "recycled". As long as the emissions are captured by new growth the net is 0.

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 11:27 am

I once calculated here on this forum that the CO2 emissions generated by a typical coal stove in the process of generating heat (BTU's) for a home is lower than the CO2 generated by the same home if it was to be heated via 100% resistance electricity, when one presumes that a given percentage of our nations electricity is generated by the burning of coal, and then factors in the production inefficiency of electrical generation and also the transmission inefficiency vs. the efficiency of burning coal straight up in a typical stove.

But that was a several years back, and now the percentage of electricity derived from coal is lower, so perhaps the tide has turned?

 
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Post by Richard S. » Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 5:56 pm

lsayre wrote:
Tue. Sep. 11, 2018 11:27 am
But that was a several years back, and now the percentage of electricity derived from coal is lower, so perhaps the tide has turned?
I had not considered electric in my comment above. As you mentioned the efficiency is much lower and that;s the case whether it's coal or gas. Coal was replaced mostly with gas, while it has a lower output of CO2 at the power plant there is a significant amount of CO2 and methane released before it gets to the plant. The other monkey wrench in that calculation is geothermal and heat pumps.


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