Draft Checks

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joeq
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Post by joeq » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 5:13 pm

One of our members, (King Coal...Steve), came up with an interesting request. Because Steve has collected so much data from building his own stoves from scratch, he was curious about draft influences from different areas of "other members" stoves. And while my 111 was down for ..."reasons i'ld rather not disclose"( :oops: ), I decided to install another port inside my CC, along with the one on my stove pipe. So excuse me for a few minutes, while I shoot some photos, and gather some data. If anyone else wants to play, please join in. :D
(I can see professor Lee already, with cordless drill in hand) :lol:


 
scalabro
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Post by scalabro » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 5:19 pm

That’s heresy to drill a hole in that old girl there Joe🤪

Really, it’s just “Gee wiz” info. Who cares what the overfire draft is, it’s a useless #. Knowing draft at the breech is all that is necessary. Maybe in a laboratory it would be useful in the design of an all out 21 century Baseburner.... so maybe Dr. Lee will be on it 🤓🤓

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 5:28 pm

scalabro wrote:
Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 5:19 pm
That’s heresy to drill a hole in that old girl there Joe🤪

Really, it’s just “Gee wiz” info. Who cares what the overfire draft is, it’s a useless #. Knowing draft at the breech is all that is necessary.
Your spoilin' his fun. :lol:

I was discussing this with Steve and if I remove one of the #10 machine screws from the door frame casting holding it to the barrel, it should be the right size to fit the 3/16 inch brake tubing mano probe I made without need of drilling a hole.

Only one problem,.... I put Hercules furnace cement on the screw threads and now I can't get them undone. Seems to hold better than Locktite. :oops:

To be continued.....

Paul

 
scalabro
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Post by scalabro » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 5:35 pm

Hahahahaha yeah but wait till the arguments start🤪

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 6:03 pm

scalabro wrote:
Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 5:35 pm
Hahahahaha yeah but wait till the arguments start🤪
You mean those, "spirited debates" ? :lol:

Paul

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 6:46 pm

Scott, I would never intentionally "ventilate" the original barrel, and did something similar to what Paul did. In the back of the stove, where the "dd damper" is located, (by 6 or 8 screws), last week-end, I removed one of the factory ones at 9 oclock, and replaced it with a modified metric something or other bolt/nut, which I drilled an 1/8th hole through. Don't know what size is appropriate, but it's as big as I could muster in the screw/hole that it's in. Didn't see it as an issue in what little time it would've/should've taken to do the checks. But of course, does anything go easy or as planned? Not in my Murphy environment. :evil:
I planned on doing quite a few checks, in different functions, with MPD open and closed, primaries same, and in DD and ID. But 1st I needed to make sure of mano accuracy, so I removed the supply tube to check my mech. zero. Once that was reset, I blew air through the tubes and connections to make sure of any obstructions. Once I placed my stove in DD, W/MPD W/O, the most it would register was .-05. The coal bed is fresh, no ash, and 450°! There's no way this chimney system has ever been that low. I've gone through every connection for security and checked for kinks or blockage, even went out to check my 18' 6" metalbestos piping with a light and mirror to confirm it wasn't blocked, which it's not.
So I guess I need to re-order some red liquid for my old Dwyers, and see what info that will bring. Sorry for the delay, but "Thanks for playing". :cry:
Edit: Even with the ash pan door and MPD wide open, in DD, won't read higher than -.04-5

 
scalabro
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Post by scalabro » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 6:58 pm

Whew! You had me concerned man🤪


 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 7:15 pm

What's wrong with -.05?
That's plenty isn't it?
What's the reading with the ash pan door closed, MPD open and primaries open?

 
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Post by michaelanthony » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 7:42 pm

Hi joeq! Do you have the common manometer Dwyer Mark ll 25 0 - 3 inches of water. If so compare recordings.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 7:50 pm

Joe,

With ash door open, that will give low mano readings in the barrel. Same as a wide open throttle of a carb will give lower vac readings in the intake manifold of an engine.

Paul

 
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Post by KingCoal » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 7:56 pm

Joe, real comparison is to get an established fire cruising in base mode. sample between your MPD and the stove collar, then right away sample in the CC.

if the -.05 you've reported was CC reading and nothing like what you're used to seeing then it pretty much reflects what i was saying.

our stoves run WAY lower and slower than we think. the pressure and volume that is actually being drawn thru the fire bed is quite light and thin.

i'm running any where between -.02 and -.005 in the CC during base mode, depending on what stage the fires at ( when the primary is slightly more open it's lower, higher when it's just a slit.)

interestingly when i open the cover on my hopper my mano. reading drops not rises.

thanks for taking the time and effort for a "just for kicks" experiment.

steve

 
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Post by Lightning » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 7:59 pm

I agree Paul, since enough volume can get thru the open ash pan door to satisfy some of that negative pressure, resulting a weaker mano reading.

Steve, that makes good sense to me.

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 8:00 pm

With the ash pan door wide open, clean grates, in DD, and my MPD wide open, when the coals are cranking, it becomes a blowtorch. Use-ta hit over -.1 a while ago. Not sure when this has become an issue, because the zero has been off recently, I'm all screwed up now, and don't trust what I'm seeing.
Mike I do have a mach II, but need to order some liquid for it.

 
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Post by KingCoal » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 8:11 pm

please, close the ash door, put it in Base Mode and set the MPD where you're satisfied to leave it for 10 mins.

then, sample outside and in the CC and tell me what you get. this is a static, no changes, as usual operation test.

thanks,
steve

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 8:12 pm

joeq wrote:
Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 8:00 pm
With the ash pan door wide open, clean grates, in DD, and my MPD wide open, when the coals are cranking, it becomes a blowtorch. Use-ta hit over -.1 a while ago. Not sure when this has become an issue, because the zero has been off recently, I'm all screwed up now, and don't trust what I'm seeing.
Mike I do have a mach II, but need to order some liquid for it.

Yup, but that .1+ readings were with the mano in the pipe, right ?

Part of what makes your mano reading high is exhaust velocity, not just simply pressure drop.

If your measuring in the barrel, because it acts like a plenum, the exhaust velocity is lower, so the mano will read lower there with the ash door open than it will in the pipe.

Paul


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