Been burning wood for years and I'm trying coal. I have a few questions.

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 8:52 am

I'm learning about hand fired stove operation from watching this thread. One question I have is: Is it proper to add fresh coal first, and then shake down the ashes, or it it proper to shake down the ashes first, and then add fresh coal?

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 9:11 am

lsayre wrote:
Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 8:52 am
I'm learning about hand fired stove operation from watching this thread. One question I have is: Is it proper to add fresh coal first, and then shake down the ashes, or it it proper to shake down the ashes first, and then add fresh coal?
I have done it both ways.When i add fresh coal,then shake down the ashes,the fresh coal is burning the gas off,proof is the blue flames. At this point i have found it to be tricky opening the load door without the flames wanting to do a big flare-up.

My usual routine is to open the ash door,pull the ash pan,walk about 20' out the door & dump the pan,walk 20' back inside to the stove,insert the ash pan,close the ash door,shake the grates ,open the ash door,if pan is glowing, i will poke/slice if needed ,i then close the ash door,open the load door,fill to heaping full with nut coal,close the door,check the primary air setting...DONE !!! No puff backs or explosions...the stove is a Crane 404.
I don't know that anyone can follow this procedure with their particular stove tho...
I read time after time of the long drawn-out process that many/most go thru to get their stove refilled after ashing & all the fuss & worry about puff backs or fire dying..

The Crane has a fairly unique secondary air designed into it that may be the reason for no worry tending.

I will add this... my hand fed stove is not my primary heat source,so i do not need to worry about recovery time as much.The main heating is done by my coal burning EFM520 stoker boiler.My stove is needed in a very cold concrete floored room to keep comfortable .

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 9:26 am

Larry, I have always, always cleared ash first then put on fresh coal. It just makes better sense to me to not have fresh coal in the way if I wanna do some topside work clearing stubborn ash in corners. But before even clearing ash, if the fuel bed isn't running hot I'll rev up the fire, then clear ash. If the fuel bed seems weak after clearing, I'll give it a few minutes with the ash door open and load door closed to regain its composure, then pile on fresh.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 9:42 am

Lightning wrote:
Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 9:26 am
Larry, I have always, always cleared ash first then put on fresh coal. It just makes better sense to me to not have fresh coal in the way if I wanna do some topside work clearing stubborn ash in corners. But before even clearing ash, if the fuel bed isn't running hot I'll rev up the fire, then clear ash. If the fuel bed seems weak after clearing, I'll give it a few minutes with the ash door open and load door closed to regain its composure, then pile on fresh.
I think in some stoves that tend to bridge or "set up",it is advantageous to put fresh coal on b4 to help push the coal down towards the grates.Plus some folks believe it is necessary to heat up the new coal in small increments & they accomplish that by adding some coal early in the tending procedure. I fill my stove all at once & walk away,the coal gradually warms from the bottom up to the top all by its self.
I have never needed to work topside to clear ash or help my stove, but mine has no landings around the fire-pot for ashes to rest on either.
I only worry about extended rev-up period when i have run the stove temp below 250* for 10-12 hrs.

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 9:51 am

If you add coal first and then shake you'll have to go back and add more coal anyway. Rev up, shake down, add coal.


 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 11:46 am

lcback wrote:
Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 8:28 am
Do you guys see a price hike in the middle of the season? I sure do with LP. Ill pay $2.25 a gallon before the season starts, but by February its $3.85. One of the biggest reasons I hate burning it.
The prices for coal are relatively stable, mid seasons increases rarely happen but $10 on a ton would be a lot. You would need a big spike in the cost of diesel for example to precipitate an increase mid season. That works out to 20 cents per bag. Generally speaking the price will drop a little in the Spring and will come back up a little late summer or early Fall. It's no more now that it was about 10 years ago but there was some pretty significant increases from 2000 until 2008. If anything it might be slightly less than it was around '08 and'09.

 
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Post by Benny » Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 12:00 pm

Thomas mills,205 bulk , 985 out of Jennerstown

 
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Post by lcback » Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 3:30 pm

CoalJockey wrote:
Mon. Feb. 05, 2018 5:38 pm
ICback

I figure $315.00 may be a bit dear for anthracite even as far away as Westmoreland County. If you want to trim your price tag a bit, perhaps look around your area for a bulk dealer. You should be able to buy high quality bulk anthracite in your area for $250.00-$280.00 per ton I would think. We are at $230.00 here but I would be a pretty far drive for you.

There are multiple yards in Cambria County, several right in the Johnstown area that would be closer to you. Look up HWZ Coal Co in Cassandra, Dallas Coal in Sidman, Harper and Gallo near Ebensburg or perhaps there is one even closer to you than these. Any of these bulk dealers will have a loader or high lift of some kind to load your pickup truck or trailer. Most likely they will do delivery to your door for an extra fee.

If you come up empty handed, send me a private message or email, I will get you hooked up with someone. Good luck and welcome to the forum! :yes:
Thank you. I called around and found hildebrand supply, close enough for me to pick up on lunch. I got 17 bags of lehigh anthracite in my car. price was $265 a ton.

 
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Post by oliver power » Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 7:12 pm

oliver power wrote:
Mon. Feb. 05, 2018 7:54 pm
I like that saying Lightning.
Here's another saying I was told by a woman who burnt wood, tried coal, but could never keep the stove going. The coal stove was always going out, and house was cold. She went back to wood heat. She said to me, "Anyone Can Fake A Wood Fire". I bought that coal stove from her. It was my first coal stove. I have to admit; it was quite the learning curve. This site wasn't around at that time. I were on my own.

 
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Post by lcback » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 6:35 am

oliver power wrote:
Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 7:12 pm
She said to me, "Anyone Can Fake A Wood Fire"..
That's a lot of the problem with uneducated people burning wood. If your wood isn't dry enough (20% moisture) everyone just adds more air, and gets it to burn. But you loose so much of the heat, and add a ton of creosote to your chimney.

For me, I have to have my wood split for 2 summers before its dry enough to burn well. Its amazing the difference in ease of starting, and how much heat I get with fewer splits. Bad thing, its hard to get ahead. You have to have enough room to stack it all, and good luck getting it to stay up right for years with wind, and shrinkage.

All that hassle is whats pushing me to Coal. If this keeps going well, Ill be buying enough coal for next winter, then Splitting and stacking this spring for winter 19-20.


 
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Post by Richard S. » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 11:25 am

lcback wrote:
Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 6:35 am
If this keeps going well, Ill be buying enough coal for next winter, then Splitting and stacking this spring for winter 19-20.
I suspect someone will be selling wood in '19 and '20. There is a lot of people here that have done that. They sell the wood and buy coal, sometimes making a few bucks in the process depending on the local cost for wood.

 
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Post by oliver power » Wed. Feb. 07, 2018 2:16 pm

lsayre wrote:
Tue. Feb. 06, 2018 8:52 am
I'm learning about hand fired stove operation from watching this thread. One question I have is: Is it proper to add fresh coal first, and then shake down the ashes, or it it proper to shake down the ashes first, and then add fresh coal?
I too have done it both ways. I prefer doing all my ash clearing first. It's much easier to fluff/poke without the weight of new coal on top.

My tending is very similar to Windy's routine. Pull the ash pan, walk outside, and dump it. Put the ash pan back in stove, and close the ash pan door. Through the front load door, run the poker through the coal bed, in 4 different places, fluffing up the coal bed. With front load door cracked open, shake the grates (This will keep the fly ash off the glass). Open the hopper door, and fill'er up. DONE! Haven't timed myself but, probably about 2 - 3 minutes. Rule of thumb: One door open to a time. You always want room air to be drawn in.

 
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Post by CorrosionMan » Thu. Feb. 08, 2018 8:49 pm

With my Hitzer 82FA, if I add a lot of coal at once, I have to open over air aloy for 30-45 minutes to stop puff backs.

There is nothing funnier than a large puffback with mother standing beside furnance.

 
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Post by deepwoods » Fri. Feb. 09, 2018 8:04 pm

Lightning wrote:
Mon. Feb. 05, 2018 8:59 pm
Thanks Oliver, before I submitted that post I thought, "Really?!" :lol: Then I realized how true it is.

Icback - during the shoulder month warm days I have fun seeing how low and slow I can run the fire. There has been times that the fire goes into suspended animation with 170 degrees over the load door and draft hovering -.01 The convection blower cycles become nonexistent due to the lack of heat output. The view thru the load door window shows nothing but a black abyss with no evidence of any coal combustion other than a faint red glow deep within the fuel bed. The fire will sit like that, dormant, for 12+ hours then roar back to life within minutes of opening the ash pan door. It's one of my favorite coal stunts. My record burn time with a revivable fire is 66 hours. Coal is fun!

So long story short, provided ash gets cleared properly at tending and you can keep draft, that fire will idle down without dying.
Shutting down my Hitzer 50-93 is a minimum 3 day affair considering it has a full hopper at day 1 of shutdown. all I do is shake it every 12 hours because I want to burn the coal left in it that I paid for.
As for continual running all square/rectangular fireboxes accumulate ash buildup along the sides. My Hitzer operating instructions call for "poking" the firebox edges with an implement not specified, to clear ash buildup. I use a 3/16" piece of common drill rod about 3 feet long with 1 foot of the rod bent at about 30 degrees so I can reach the rear corners once or twice a week depending on how hard the stove is being burned. As Lightning says a coal fire can really be run low. My lowest temp so far has been 225 degrees on the Hitzer (stove body) and the best news is NO creosote vs. a low running wood fire! I am a 30 year woodburning veteran and never had it better since I switched to coal.

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