Cold Air Returns

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sat. Feb. 03, 2018 7:28 pm

Talk about a misleading title. !st it sounds like a horror movie, then it seems like talk about the weather. But in reality, it could be a discussion on a better way of getting air to flow through our house. It's been mentioned many times in the past, and I put it into the search, but pickins seem a little slim. So maybe we can freshen things up with us newbs.I brought this up in Pauls thread, but would like to carry it on its own.
I'll present this photo again, and maybe I could get an opinion. I know Hoytman came up with an idea, and would like to elaborate on it some more.
In this photo, the main air return is on the floor, under the red floormat with the wagon on it, behind the rocking chair. You'll notice there's a half wall next to the chair, and the stove is located in the coral, (as I like to call it.). I was wondering about the advantages of moving the return to the other side of the 1/2 wall, closer to the base of the stove. It's not an easy place to work under that floor, but if people thought the difference would be worth the effort, I would give it a try. As it stands, that rocker isn't very comfortable to sit at, 'cause there's cold air radiating up from the cellar, and hot air coming over the 1/2 wall. Thanks for your input.
Hoytman mention just cutting a hole in the wall above the existing floor grate, and letting it flow through to the stove. not sure how effective that would be either. thoughts, or experiences?

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michaelanthony
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Post by michaelanthony » Sat. Feb. 03, 2018 8:29 pm

Hey joeq I want to pass along something I did after many feeble attempts to move heat. My home is ranch style, bedrooms at one end, bathroom in the middle, and kitchen, living room / dinning area the other end. There is a center hallway that runs the length of the house almost, it stops at the bedrooms. My Sparkle is approx 40 ft from the linen closet separated by a wall and a 40 foot U turn. I cut a hole in the linen closet floor approx 8" X 8" that leads to the basement. In the basement I took a never used fan from a kitchen stove range hood someone gave me, it has a 3 way switch, low-hi-off, and screwed it to the basement side of the hole in the linen closet and wired an extension cord to it. Because the fan is pulling the cool air into the basement it is replaced immediately with warm air. It is 76 degrees at the furthest point from the stove and 82 degrees next to the stove.
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...and the basement gets the cooler air, 50 degrees I'm guessing.

 
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Post by joeq » Sat. Feb. 03, 2018 9:02 pm

OK Mike, so let me see if I'm understanding. By the floor fan sucking cool air from the floor of the closet, the room is fed warm air from the hallway? I guess I can see that. Not 100% of my situation tho.
Behind my rocking chair, the floor grate spews mucho amounts of cold air, "when the oil furnace isn't running." (Which is most of the time, when the stove is cranking.) pretty uncomfortable over there. That's why I'm thinking about moving it a few feet on the other side of the 1/2 wall. People have mentioned turning my blower fan from the furnace on manual, to "suck" the hot air from the living room, and send it through the furnaces registers in the rooms. Tried that on a few occasions, and all it does is blow cold air. The ductwork is so cold in the cellar, and the very minimal heat on the floor of the living room, isn't enuff to offset each other.

 
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Post by michaelanthony » Sat. Feb. 03, 2018 9:14 pm

joeq wrote:
Sat. Feb. 03, 2018 9:02 pm
OK Mike, so let me see if I'm understanding. By the floor fan sucking cool air from the floor of the closet, the room is fed warm air from the hallway? I guess I can see that. Not 100% of my situation tho.
I removed the door to the closet, but a louvered door would work, the heat from the stove races down the hall and fills all the rooms down there.
Behind my rocking chair, the floor grate spews mucho amounts of cold air, "when the oil furnace isn't running." (Which is most of the time, when the stove is cranking.) pretty uncomfortable over there. That's why I'm thinking about moving it a few feet on the other side of the 1/2 wall. People have mentioned turning my blower fan from the furnace on manual, to "suck" the hot air from the living room, and send it through the furnaces registers in the rooms. Tried that on a few occasions, and all it does is blow cold air. The ductwork is so cold in the cellar, and the very minimal heat on the floor of the living room, isn't enuff to offset each other.
Put a thermometer on your floor near the stove...why move cold air? That's why I RE-moved the cold air. I tried blowing what I thought was warm air and by the time it got from point A to point B it was cold, air cools as it's moving.

 
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Post by joeq » Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 12:08 am

Your last post confuses me Mike. (don't take it personal...it's me ;) )
I understand the reason for putting a return near the stove, where the heat is. My "main" objective is to get the cold return away from the rocking chair, but also, (for a secondary benefit) take the air by the stove area, and let the cold air from the basement, blend with the hot air from the stove. Sort-a like when builders install registers or heaters under windows, to mix the hot air, with the cold air from the glass.
I can see your mods of putting the return in the closet, and venting the door, being favorable for your dilemma. And I assume it was worth the time to perform. Was wondering if my idea had any merits, (In my application) or worth the effort.

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 8:33 am

Put a spring or gravity closed flap in the cold air return so it shuts the return off when the furnace isn’t running.

 
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Post by 2biz » Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 10:13 am

hotblast1357 wrote:
Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 8:33 am
Put a spring or gravity closed flap in the cold air return so it shuts the return off when the furnace isn’t running.
Most logical so far...You can "Test" by covering the C.A.R. with a rug or thick folded blanket as long as the furnace is switched off. Place a box fan in the larger room facing the stove to help with convection...Once you make sure this works, then you can put in the automated flaps (as suggested) to avoid starving the furnace of cold air.


 
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Post by joeq » Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 10:20 am

Not a bad idea HB. Because the return grate is so big, it would have to be an elaborate set-up, to be able to hold up a flap of that size. But the thought is there. Thanks
You beat my post by a couple minutes 2B. I show the top photo of a rug over the return, to keep cold air from leaking into the room. but it can't be there when the furnace is running. (Naturally), so trying to place it on the grate, and then pull it off when the heat is on, is a bit nerve-racking.

 
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 10:25 am

If cold air is coming up thru the return vent.... something is pulling that air... :?:

:idea: Your hand fed stove is pulling combustion air thru the cold air return ? OR, does cold air come up this vent even when the stove is cold ?

IF the stove is causing this.... it would seem that the obvious solution would be to move the cold air return vent closer to the stove so that the cold air gets to the stove without chilling any human in the house. :)

 
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Post by joeq » Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 10:31 am

That's my entire question Dave. If I went through the aggravation of putting it next to the stove, would that benefit be worth the trouble. If it wouldn't "disrupt the function of the oil fired furnace", by locating near the stove, then I'm guessing it would work, and be worth the trouble.

 
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 10:37 am

joeq wrote:
Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 10:31 am
That's my entire question Dave. If I went through the aggravation of putting it next to the stove, would that benefit be worth the trouble. If it wouldn't "disrupt the function of the oil fired furnace", by locating near the stove, then I'm guessing it would work, and be worth the trouble.
If the vent is relocated closer to the stove, i have to assume that no human could then sit between the cold air vent & the warm stove ? If that is the case.... then you have won that part of the battle.

I can't figure any way that relocation would affect the function of the furnace.... except that the cold air return would pull warm air from around the stove which would require less oil to heat the air to proper temp & would also help move the warm air from the stove room into the rest of the house.

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 10:59 am

Except for when the furnace fan over powers the draft of the chimney, and starts pulling flue gasses from the inlet of the stove into your heating ducts.

The duct work is all sealed up downstairs? Or do u have registers and cold air returns downstairs also?

 
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 11:25 am

hotblast1357 wrote:
Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 10:59 am
Except for when the furnace fan over powers the draft of the chimney, and starts pulling flue gasses from the inlet of the stove into your heating ducts.

The duct work is all sealed up downstairs? Or do u have registers and cold air returns downstairs also?
If that is the case,it won't matter where the return vent is,it can pull draft from the chimney regardless if 2' or 20' separate the return vent & stove.

 
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 11:55 am

Just move it.

 
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Post by michaelanthony » Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 12:03 pm

joeq wrote:
Sun. Feb. 04, 2018 12:08 am
Your last post confuses me Mike. (don't take it personal...it's me ;) )
I understand the reason for putting a return near the stove, where the heat is. My "main" objective is to get the cold return away from the rocking chair, but also, (for a secondary benefit) take the air by the stove area, and let the cold air from the basement, blend with the hot air from the stove. Sort-a like when builders install registers or heaters under windows, to mix the hot air, with the cold air from the glass.
I can see your mods of putting the return in the closet, and venting the door, being favorable for your dilemma. And I assume it was worth the time to perform. Was wondering if my idea had any merits, (In my application) or worth the effort.
Now I'm confused! :lol: Are you trying to pull warm air from the stove area through the cold air return and let your furnace fan mix it? If that is the case the air by the stove at floor level isn't worth the trouble...it's cool. If you want to suck in warm air do as tcalo did and raise the cold air vent and put it above your Alexander Graham Bell telephone on the wall. If you are trying to circulate the heat better go to the coldest part of the house and suck that cold air out somehow. Example: if you put a fan in a window and blow the cold air outside, unimpeded the warm air will replace it. I hope this explains my reasoning.

edit: my furnace plenum and delivery system in the basement is cold + warm air and the air becomes cold, hot goes to cold. I used my plenum system when I connected a box stove to it "IN" the basement and blew hot air through it. That worked great because the basement was 70 plus degrees. I changed my system this year with the base burner and now I pull warm air through my house with the closet fan removing the cool air at the furthest logical spot in the house.


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