Dhw tempering with 50-93

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coalmaster
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Post By: coalmaster » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 6:59 pm

So this is a little extravagant, I know. I was looking for a hobby this winter while I sit at home. Hide site being 20/20 I guess using all copper was a mistake and should have used steel instead. After 3 days of running I have the 109 gallon tank up to 105 degrees using mostly thermosiphon and just a few hours a day with the circulator running. The water from the street is coming to the house at 43*, So a rise of over 60*s is pretty good I think
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coalmaster
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Post By: coalmaster » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 7:03 pm

This tank is hooked inline with a powered on electric water heater. No I don't have a tempering valve. the best temperature I've seen leave the tank was 105. The boiler loop does run around 115 though. I think over time I'll do a little better with the temps. 125 would be optimal performance for me

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Post By: WNY » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 7:06 pm

you could have used baseboard heating coils with the fins to absorb more heat. Someone on here did it that way very similar to yours on the outside of the stove.

like the turbo/supercharger intercooler on the floor... ;)

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coalmaster
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Post By: coalmaster » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 7:11 pm

I had given that some thought for sure but in the end I found a box of 14 1/2 tee's out in the garage left over from years of small projects. Thats really the reason i went with a header manifold setup. Well that and flow, The nine vertical tubes all pressing to get into the top tube give a decent flow

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coalmaster
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Post By: coalmaster » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 7:13 pm

Only problem so far is that the pressure relief valve is dripping occasionally at only 15 psi

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Post By: oliver power » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 8:16 pm

If you run your tubing horizontal, back & fourth, "in series", up the side of your stove, you'd have all kinds of hot water. You can do away with the circulator. Run the cooler water in at the bottom, and hot out the top. That's how ours was set up. Worked very well. It lasted a fair amount of years, till it plugged with minerals.

For a little added performance, enclose the copper tubing. One flat sheet of tin hanging from the top horizontal tubing is all it takes. We did not enclose our copper tubing. I do know people who have, and claim it made quite a difference.

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coalmaster
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Post By: coalmaster » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 8:23 pm

Right now i put ceramic tile against the copper, two layers of it. Then I have 6 in think fiberglass over that. I use the circulator for an hour or so at a time.it seems to even out the tank temp. I'm using an indirect tank and that's why I chose to have a circulator but it works good without it

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Post By: Rob R. » Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 8:40 pm

That looks like a lot of $ in copper and fittings for not much hot water.

Can you get through copper coil to sit flat against the side of the stove?

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coalmaster
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Post By: coalmaster » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 7:40 am

It wasn't cheap I'll say that. Running the stove hard I have the tank up to 100and that will have to do for this year. Maybe over the summer I'll be able to find a coil that won't interfere with the hopper. How much more hot water do you think that will make? It take a lot of btu's to hear 110 gallons. I think my setup would work better if I had used a 50

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Lightning
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Post By: Lightning » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 4:29 pm

Can you fit a side arm coil inside the fire chamber? It will do a much better job of soaking up BTUs in my opinion.

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coalmaster
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Post By: coalmaster » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 5:12 pm

I haven't really looked into the different coils available. I know hitzer doesn't have one for their hopper stoves, only the furnaces. It's definitely a better to take btu's from the gases than from the metal itself. I'm sure I could fit almost any coil out there with some work. Lightening I know you have a dhw setup, what temps do you see in the tank or at the coil?

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freetown fred
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Post By: freetown fred » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 5:36 pm

C, I think this method will save you some headaches--tried & true, not just shootin in the dark.
oliver power wrote:
Wed. Jan. 17, 2018 8:16 pm
If you run your tubing horizontal, back & fourth, "in series", up the side of your stove, you'd have all kinds of hot water. You can do away with the circulator. Run the cooler water in at the bottom, and hot out the top. That's how ours was set up. Worked very well. It lasted a fair amount of years, till it plugged with minerals.

For a little added performance, enclose the copper tubing. One flat sheet of tin hanging from the top horizontal tubing is all it takes. We did not enclose our copper tubing. I do know people who have, and claim it made quite a difference.

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Lightning
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Post By: Lightning » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 5:42 pm

It really depends on how hot the furnace is firing and how much hot water is being used. It's interesting to watch a thermo siphon work. For example, no matter how hard the furnace is firing, there is always a 22-28 degree difference between the cold side going in and the hot side coming out. The difference is that when the furnace is firing hot, the temp difference is closer to 28 degrees and the turn over is faster. When the furnace is firing cooler, the temp difference is closer to 22 degrees but the turn over is slower. I arrived at this conclusion because there is no other way the temper tank could get to 160 degrees given the same hot water usage

So getting back to heating the tank, as the warmer water enters the top side of the tank it stratifies. Starting with a full cold tank of 50 degrees, warm water enters the top of the tank from the coil at 75 degrees. As the water naturally circulates, that division layer of temperature difference in the tank descends to the bottom and soon the same water re enters the coil at 75 degrees. Now the 75 degree water is lifted to 100 degrees and so on the turn over repeats. One turn over of the tank in the fall season takes about 10-12 hours. I see the turn over repeat because thru the first 10 or so hours the warm side of the coil is steady at 75 degrees, then within an hour it jumps to 100.

Pardon my rambling lol, So getting back to your question, I see it vary between 90 degrees in the shoulder months when the furnace is idling, up to 160 degrees on the coldest winter days when the furnace is firing it's strongest.

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coalmaster
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Post By: coalmaster » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 5:53 pm

I'm using an indirect tank so domestic is separate from the coil/boiler. I've been running 4 days and have been playing with circulator on or off times. Finally got above 100 with the pump running. When I turn the pump off and allow thermosiphon to take over the boiler temp is now up to 120. So I'm gaining ground everyday. 110 gallons of water at 100 is a nice buffer but after 5 showers the recovery is slow because the water from the street is coming in the house at 43* Do you have a nice photo of your coil available?

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coalmaster
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Post By: coalmaster » Thu. Jan. 18, 2018 5:55 pm

Thanks ff. I'm beginning to see the errors of my ways. The great thing about going back to the drawing board is you get to learn from mistakes and start over

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