Getting two Vigilant II coal stoves soon

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 5:14 am

Yeah I dunno if they're doing something wrong or what but that was their main complaint for not sticking with coal. I've heard it from a few of them. I guess if you love the extra work and can be home to feed the stove then wood is a good choice lol.


 
TheTradesmanChannel
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Post by TheTradesmanChannel » Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 10:27 am

Lightning wrote:
Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 5:14 am
Yeah I dunno if they're doing something wrong or what but that was their main complaint for not sticking with coal. I've heard it from a few of them. I guess if you love the extra work and can be home to feed the stove then wood is a good choice lol.
You guys are a lot more knowledgeable on the subject than I am but it seems to be a different kind of heat.

 
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Post by Hoytman » Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 10:37 am

For a wood stove, could you elaborate on the Lopi? I will be going to coal (anthracite) next winter and replacing the current non-working wood stove, using oil furnace currently. Had I not found this site over a year ago a Lopi wood burner was at the top of 3 different brands I had picked out to replace the stove that is there now. I know your stove is older and likely doesn't have the secondary air tubes in it, but I'd still like to get some input about those stoves from someone who has used them a number of years. Welcome to the forum!

 
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Post by TheTradesmanChannel » Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 12:00 pm

Hoytman wrote:
Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 10:37 am
For a wood stove, could you elaborate on the Lopi? I will be going to coal (anthracite) next winter and replacing the current non-working wood stove, using oil furnace currently. Had I not found this site over a year ago a Lopi wood burner was at the top of 3 different brands I had picked out to replace the stove that is there now. I know your stove is older and likely doesn't have the secondary air tubes in it, but I'd still like to get some input about those stoves from someone who has used them a number of years. Welcome to the forum!
Good morning. The Lopi I have is 28 years old and has run hot for 28 winters, usually 800*F non stop until spring. This one doesn't have the secondary burn tubes in the top but it does have a baffle made out of firebrick in the top with a bypass damper in the back to slow down the exit of flue gasses. As for quality, this stove has been top notch. Only thing I've ever done is replace rope gaskets every couple of years, still has the original brick in it. The combustion air comes in from the bottom and makes getting fire going very easy. I've been feeding this stove since I was 8.

 
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VigIIPeaBurner
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Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 12:48 pm

TheTradesmanChannel wrote:
Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 2:13 am
That's a curious thing. I was at the local coal supplier here this past week and his stove was running at 500...felt like I was standing in front of the sun. When my woodstove is running at 800 it doesn't feel that warm. Coal must distribute it's heat differently...or maybe it's so much of the heat goes up the chimney with wood.
It has a lot to do with the design of the stove as much as it does the fuel. We're warming mass one way or another and getting the molecules moving against each other creating friction. Your comment "felt like I was standing in front of the sun" sums it up. Heat comes from electromagnetic radiation, the Infrared part of the spectrum warming mass directly or indirectly.

Radiant stoves rely on direct infrared energy striking objects and warming them. In the Vigilant II 2310. the large double widows are exposed directly to the side of the burning block of coal in the firebox. Infrared heat beams out of the windows, and you can sit 10' away and feel it warm your bones. :) The rest of the stove radiates heat from the hot exhaust gas traveling circuitously under the top dome and the space between the sides and the back heating the CI on its way out.

Convective stoves rely on radiant heat transferred to air , usually within a confined chamber where air is forced through and out of the chamber. Same principle as above but the IR heats the air which bounces off surfaces eventually warming them by friction.

The difference between coal and wood fuel is mainly how they combust. Anthracite Coal, mainly carbon (C) burns as a mass once everything evens out. Combustion air come from under the fuel. Every piece of coal is glowing red (emitting IR) as it combusts into CO and once more to CO2. Wood has many hydrocarbon compounds (CxHx) & carbon (C) to be 'distilled' and combusted. They leave the log mixed together with/at different temperatures and different times as the log combust. BTUs are released when the mix combust into visible flame in the area above the logs. The air mix and temperature has to be right or you loose BTUs to smoke up the chimney. That's why wood gasification stoves are cleaner and hotter albeit more complex: They combust the particles of carbon in the smoke. Here's a neat example of a wood gasification fire pit.
Solo Stove Bonfire

 
TheTradesmanChannel
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Post by TheTradesmanChannel » Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 2:09 pm

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:
Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 12:48 pm
It has a lot to do with the design of the stove as much as it does the fuel. We're warming mass one way or another and getting the molecules moving against each other creating friction. Your comment "felt like I was standing in front of the sun" sums it up. Heat comes from electromagnetic radiation, the Infrared part of the spectrum warming mass directly or indirectly.

Radiant stoves rely on direct infrared energy striking objects and warming them. In the Vigilant II 2310. the large double widows are exposed directly to the side of the burning block of coal in the firebox. Infrared heat beams out of the windows, and you can sit 10' away and feel it warm your bones. :) The rest of the stove radiates heat from the hot exhaust gas traveling circuitously under the top dome and the space between the sides and the back heating the CI on its way out.

Convective stoves rely on radiant heat transferred to air , usually within a confined chamber where air is forced through and out of the chamber. Same principle as above but the IR heats the air which bounces off surfaces eventually warming them by friction.

The difference between coal and wood fuel is mainly how they combust. Anthracite Coal, mainly carbon (C) burns as a mass once everything evens out. Combustion air come from under the fuel. Every piece of coal is glowing red (emitting IR) as it combusts into CO and once more to CO2. Wood has many hydrocarbon compounds (CxHx) & carbon (C) to be 'distilled' and combusted. They leave the log mixed together with/at different temperatures and different times as the log combust. BTUs are released when the mix combust into visible flame in the area above the logs. The air mix and temperature has to be right or you loose BTUs to smoke up the chimney. That's why wood gasification stoves are cleaner and hotter albeit more complex: They combust the particles of carbon in the smoke. Here's a neat example of a wood gasification fire pit.
Solo Stove Bonfire
You know, I make my living on heating and cooling equipment of the industrial stripe and deal with heat transfer every day...that is by far the best and most thorough explanation I've ever heard on solid fuels and how they heat...well played.

 
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Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 2:32 pm

Lightning wrote:
Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 5:14 am
Yeah I dunno if they're doing something wrong or what but that was their main complaint for not sticking with coal. I've heard it from a few of them. I guess if you love the extra work and can be home to feed the stove then wood is a good choice lol.
TheTradesmanChannel wrote:
Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 10:27 am
You guys are a lot more knowledgeable on the subject than I am but it seems to be a different kind of heat.
To answer this the best way, you have to know what kind of stoves they're using to comparing the fuels. Are they designed to burn wood only, coal only, or wood'n coal?

Many wood burner are accustom to feeding a lot of over and under air to created a fast and furious fire that spikes out in a few hours and drops from there. That's what's needed to burn wood w/o making creosote. You can get a hot fire out of a few sticks of wood. But that doesn't apply to anthracite coal. If a coal firer is fed that much air, the heat washes up the chimney too quickly, especially if the stove isn't fully loaded. Fill up a coal stove and back off the air to control the stove temperature and coal will run as hot or hotter for a lot longer than wood. BTU in, BTUs out and not hot up the chimney!


 
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VigIIPeaBurner
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Post by VigIIPeaBurner » Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 2:52 pm

TheTradesmanChannel wrote:
Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 2:09 pm
You know, I make my living on heating and cooling equipment of the industrial stripe and deal with heat transfer every day...that is by far the best and most thorough explanation I've ever heard on solid fuels and how they heat...well played.
Thank you TTC. I've been really enjoying you yt channel too - good stuff!

 
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Post by TheTradesmanChannel » Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 3:17 pm

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:
Tue. Jan. 16, 2018 2:52 pm
Thank you TTC. I've been really enjoying you yt channel too - good stuff!
Thanks, glad you like it. I'm into a lot of different things, my wife is patient to say the least.

 
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Post by TheTradesmanChannel » Sat. Jan. 27, 2018 1:25 pm

800 miles and 16 hours of driving later, the stoves are home...and boy do they need love. I'll have some video up tomorrow of the work. Probably going to be working on it most of the night.

 
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Post by TheTradesmanChannel » Sun. Jan. 28, 2018 10:13 pm

16 hours out of my first burn, probably could have gone a few more hours before shaking it down but I am very excited. The video is almost ready to upload. I had to do a good amount of work on it to be able to use it but the first light off went great as well as the first shake down and reload. House has been at the same temp since last night with no overnight cool down. Very pleased so far.

 
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Post by TheTradesmanChannel » Mon. Jan. 29, 2018 8:37 am

Here's the video...it needed some work.


 
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Post by CDF_USAF » Mon. Jan. 29, 2018 1:51 pm

You work quick, Looks like it turned out pretty good.

 
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Post by TheTradesmanChannel » Mon. Jan. 29, 2018 1:54 pm

It turned out great. Time lapse makes everything fast. That was 8 hours of work condensed.

 
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Post by franco b » Mon. Jan. 29, 2018 2:22 pm

Nice video, well done.


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