Riddle Method for Ash Clearing

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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 7:13 pm

I've had the radish with these grates to the point that I'm ready to try something totally outside the box. I broke the grate nub that joins the rear grate on New Year's eve. I was lucky enough that a friend loaned me a grate he wasn't using. New Year's Day of course I was pressed for time to get the new grate in. I only used a shim to lock the two grates tight instead of using the drill and tap set screw method. Well the shim didn't hold and now I have slop between the grates that prevents thorough ash clearing in the rear half of the fire box. GRRRR! :x

So then I get on YouTube and look around and I find this guy using a flat bar to clear ash, looks easy enough.



So then I lifted the front liner on my furnace to gain access, you can see the bolts on each side supporting it. I was really impressed with how well the "steel bar" cleared ash when I ran 20 inches worth into it right on top the grates.

So I think that with some poking and heaving down thru the top to bring ash to the bottom, then running a flat bar across the top of the grates to get ash to fall thru, I'll have a winner. Instead of having the shaker grates, I'll need to install something that works better for riddling the bottom. It might even work better than these shakers. At least I wouldn't have grate jams anymore lol.

What's your thoughts?
I've actually been looking at some wood grates to fashion into it somehow.

I know, get a new and improved furnace lol. Can't right now.

Any ideas, advice, abuse, ECT is welcome. Feel free to reply.

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Storm
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Post by Storm » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 7:42 pm

I have a Harman Mark 1. To get at the ash that builds up about every 3 to 4 days, I made a few slots about 1/8x 1 inch at the left and right sides. As with your flat steel, I use 1/4x1/8. This gets the ash out from underneath. Do it fast as the heat will turn the metal red. Others on this form tell to get at the ash from the top. I do not want to desterb the fuel bed. Just my two cents worth. George

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 8:03 pm

No one has said I'm losing my mind yet lol.

 
scalabro
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Post by scalabro » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 8:10 pm

You gotta do what you gotta do Lee...

Maybe new coal grates come spring?

Plus you lost it long a go🤪🤪🤪

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 8:59 pm

scalabro wrote:
Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 8:10 pm
You gotta do what you gotta do Lee...

Maybe new coal grates come spring?

Plus you lost it long a go🤪🤪🤪
I'm afraid you might be right Scott. :shifty:
About the new grates though, the problem is that it seems the nub end that fits into the female adapter on the next grate is tapered slightly. So even new grates don't fit without the play between them. My rear grate only has half the travel as the front grate in its current condition. The drill, tap and set screw method does the trick pretty good and brings the rear grate to about 90% of the travel as the front. I'm just looking for better reliability I guess. Grate jams put excessive awkward torque forces on that union and it eventually fails. US Stove really screwed up by not coming up with a better design on these grates or they banked on replacement sales lol. The retail on one grate is $80 now.

 
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Post by warminmn » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 9:11 pm

Thats how I clear my ashes Lee. I had pics I cannot find of when it was built by me, but I'll take one or two tomorrow. Mines a flat grate, a wood stove grate that covers the bottom. I slice it some, then knock some ashes down from the top. Then if I can tell it isnt burning as good as it should, I work the crap out of the ash bed with that 6 foot long industrial medieval weapon I pictured in the past. That isnt very often though.

one advantage I did find is I can switch fuels as often as I want and it works pretty good. I think thats because the ant isnt getting lost by a shaker, falling thru the slats. It has to burn before it will fall thru the grate slots.

 
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Post by franco b » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 9:32 pm

Slicing the grate works well and is the primary method used on such stoves as Surdiac and Franco Belge. I have recommended it many times on stoves with wimpy grate shaking mechanisms. Buderus and Haas & Sohn are two other examples. Any stove with access to grate level will clear ash more easily, slicing, than rocking or rotating grates except for the best designs.


 
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Post by Lightning » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 9:53 pm

That's good to know fellas, thank you. I'm going to pursue this.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Jan. 02, 2018 10:08 pm

I'll second what Franco said. Many antiques that don't have a grate design that can be rotated in a vertical motion to dump ash have a "clinker door" at the level of the top of the grates to do exactly what your thinking of.

And if the flat bar has notched, or saw tooth edges it will help grind and break up the tougher pieces of ash even finer so they can drop though more easily. Got any friends with a machine shop ? ;)

Paul

 
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Post by Lightning » Wed. Jan. 03, 2018 9:39 am

I do! That's a grate idea Paul :yes: Even with a grinding wheel I could etch out triangles the full length of a riddle bar.

I didn't use the shakers at all this morning. With a make shift riddle bar I was able to get a good portion of ash to fall and a healthy orange glow along the whole length of the grates, then added 40 pounds. I was pleasantly impressed.

 
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Post by warminmn » Wed. Jan. 03, 2018 9:44 am

OK, heres how mine is. Cheap and simple. The hardest part is getting that slot EXACTLY where the top of the grate is. Measure twice, cut once as they say. I ground out a slot in the stove with an angle grinder, ground out a slot in a thicker piece of steel, screwed that over the stoves body, spaced slightly to shove a piece of tin in to cover the hole. The bolts you see above it are where I bolted an angle iron inside for keeping coal chunks away from the opening inside. I drilled the tiny hole in the tin thinking of intake air but its unnessessary.

I considered making a hinged door to cover the slot but it may not seal as good as the tin does, plus I thought this was easier. I have forgotten to slide the tin in several times and it never seemed to make a difference with the fire.

I still have the riddle tool I got with my efel stove and I use that, but a hacksaw frame works just as good and comes in lots of different angles for getting at the inside corners and gives you a handle. I only made one hole.

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Post by Lightning » Wed. Jan. 03, 2018 10:09 am

What stove did you do that with? What kind of grates are in it? Can I see a pic of the riddle tool?

Thank you so much for the ideas.

I'm considering this grate. It's a vogelzang 55G. The legs just bolt on, I would take them off of course and just lay it on the grate frame ledge. I gotta double check dimensions yet.

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Post by hotblast1357 » Wed. Jan. 03, 2018 10:15 am

Just weld up a grate out of rebar.

 
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Post by warminmn » Wed. Jan. 03, 2018 10:54 am

its just an old stove I converted and have used now 3 years I think. same as the one with overfire pipes. A flat grate that covers the bottom with slots. Heres my 2 riddle/slicing tools. Top one came with my efel. Other is a hacksaw frame. One is about as good as the other. The hacksaw frame reaches corners better but is a little harder to work as the angled part is longer.

I dont think teeth would do me any good on them but your burning a lot more in a day than me so maybe.

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Post by Lightning » Wed. Jan. 03, 2018 5:47 pm

Thank you for sharing that warminmn! All this information will be brought to the table.

I'd love to weld up a grate and do lots of other cool things with a welder but unfortunately I don't have one. Think of all the cool coal tools I could make! I'd love to get one.

I stopped at the local Worth W Smith hardware store and picked up a man sized steel bar to use as a riddle tool. It's steel stock, 1.5" wide x 3/16" thick x 4 ft long. As soon as I was home I did a riddle n rake n riddle, got a pretty good amount of ash out with a nice glow down thru. So far it's been a full 24 hours without twisting the shakers.

I also did some measurements and it appears that 55G grate will fit perfect. There seems to be conflicting information of the grate being either 26 inches long or 27. The shorter dimension would be better. It's in my Amazon cart, I'm ready to pull the trigger on it $75. I did see a few reviews say that it broke but I'm betting somebody man handled a heavy log onto it. I wouldn't be dropping wood on it.

I've also put some thought into the riddle tool. Suppose I put half inch holes spaced a couple inches apart or less down the whole length of it. I'm thinking the holes would funnel ash to an open grate space as it was thrust to and fro.

Just some ideas I've been pondering.


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